Episode 45 Transcript

Host: Mark Renneson

Hey, it’s Mark from Third Shot Sports. Welcome to another episode of Pickleball Problems.

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On the show today, we’re talking all about line calls; good line calls, bad line calls, what are the written rules and what are the unwritten rules. Having a lot of questions lately from people, sometimes by email, sometimes on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. A lot of people wondering about line calls and what can they do to make sure that they are an ethical line caller, and that is what we’re going to talk about today. And as a special bonus, whenever possible, I’m actually going to site the rulebook, believe or it not, the real rulebook of Pickleball. So you know, they’re just making this stuff up.

Back in a sec…

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Benefit Of The Doubt [1:29]

Alright, welcome back to the show today. We are talking about making line calls. It’s a little more complicated than sometimes you might think, and that’s why we get so many questions about it. Let’s jump right in.

First thing’s first, to make a line call, you have to be certain that the ball was out. Or I should say, if you want to call a ball out, you need to be certain that it was out. And if you’re not certain that the ball was out, then you have to consider that it was in. So if your opponents says to you, “Yeah, I’m pretty sure that was out.” Well, pretty sure is not the same as positive, and so there is doubt there. And when there is doubt, they have to give the benefit of the doubt to their opponents. So if you’re going to call the ball out, you better be certain that the ball was out, otherwise, assume that the ball was in.

Now, let’s say that you’re playing Pickleball and your opponents hit the ball and lands on your side, and you were certain if it’s in or out. Let’s say you know you have a chance to play it because it’s a terrific third shot lob, apparently, and it’s really close to the baseline or it’s a passing shot or something.

So, what do you do?

Well, first thing’s first, if you’re not certain that the ball was out, you can’t call it out but you do have a choice. First, you could say, “Well, I’m not certain. I don’t even know. Maybe out, maybe not. You know what, the benefit of the doubt goes to my opponents. Nice shot! You win the rally!” – that is one thing you can do, and that is often a good choice.

But you do have another choice, and I’m assuming right now that you’re playing without a referee. You could always ask the referee. Let’s say you don’t have a referee, then you say to your opponents, “Hey, friends, enemies, frenemies, whatever. We didn’t see that ball. We’re not certain. Did you get a good look at it?”

And the moment when you do that when you ask your opponents for their opinion, you have now given up the possibility of making the line call yourself. You have to stick with whatever they say.

You don’t believe me? Let’s take a look at the rulebook: Rule 6.D.6 from the 2020 Edition, “A player/teammate asks the opponent’s opinion to make a line call on the player’s side of the court. If requested and the opponent makes a clear in or out call, it must be accepted. If the opponents cannot make a clear in or out call, then the ball is considered in. The moment the receiving player/team asks for the opponent’s opinion, they lose the right to make any subsequent in or out call.”

So there you go. You can ask your opponents what they think. If they saw it out and they say, “Oh, I just missed it, a little bit wide.” There you go, you can stick with that. And if they say, “It was in. Of course, my shot was in. It hit the line right smack dab in the middle.” Or if they say, “I’m not really sure. I didn’t see it. Your ponytail got in the way.” Well, the benefit of the doubt remains and your opponents get that rally. So that’s how that works.

 

Player Communication [4:18]

Okay, another question that we received has to do with when the ball is flying through the air and one person says, “Out.” Is that a line call?

The answer is no, it is not a line call. Line calls can only be made once the ball has landed on the court. Here’s an example I often like to give, and I like to give this example using my mom.

So let’s imagine – hi, mom, by the way! She’s a big fan of the show. Let’s imagine I’m playing with my mom and our opponents, they hit a high ball way over our head. They think that they’re going to lob us to death. And as that ball is flying over my head, my mother yells out, “Mark! Out! Out! Out!” And then that ball lands and you know what? My poor mom, there’s a gust of wind at the end and that ball landed on the court, on the line. But I’m there for it, I’m quick. I hit it back over the net and my opponents stopped the ball and catch it.

I say, “Hey, what are you doing? Why did you stop playing?”

And they say, “Well, you called it out” or rather “Your mom called it out.”

That is not true. When that ball is flying through the air and mom says, “Out! Out! Out!” Really, what she’s saying is, “Hey, son, I think that ball is going to land long. Please don’t hit it. Let it bounce.”
Now, she’s using the word “out, out, out” it doesn’t matter because what she’s doing is considered partner communication. That’s because line calls only happen once the ball has landed.

Let’s check the rulebook, 6.D.11: “While the ball is in the air, if a player yells, “Out”, “No”, “Bounce it”, or any other words to communicate to their partner that the ball may be out, it shall be considered player communication only and not considered a line call.”

So there you go. Now, I’ve heard some people say, “Well, you shouldn’t say the word “Out”, you should something else; “Bounce it”, “Let it go”, “Watch”, “Asparagus” – say whatever you want. You can say whatever you want. You can call that ball out or say the word “Out”. But of course, it’s not a real line call until the ball has landed. So if you’re playing with other people who say the word “Out” as the ball is flying through the air, don’t assume the point is over. Okay? Did those clear things up? I hope so.

Alright, we’re going to talk more of these cool, little rules in just a moment.

Sponsor: Jigsaw Health

 

Touching The Line [7:28]

Alright, welcome back to Pickleball Problems. I’m your host, Mark Renneson. And today, we are talking all about line calls. We’ve already addressed a couple of them. Let’s get to another right now, and this one might seem obvious – I hope it’s obvious unless you’re a really new player, that’s okay if it’s not obvious. But the rule is that in order for a shot to be in, it just has to touch the line. If it’s touching the line, it is in. If it’s on the line. For a ball to be out, it must be not in contact with the line or anything in bounce? Out – In, you get the idea.

Now, some examples of where this matters, of course, it’s on the baseline or it’s on the sideline or whatever. Really important one, sometimes I get this question is: When I’m serving and I hit my serve, and the serve touches the line of the non-volley zone, also known as the kitchen, is that good? Because on the line is in? Well, no and yes.

No, it is not good. Yes, on the line is in but remember the rule when you’re serving. You must serve beyond the non-volley zone. You must serve beyond the kitchen into the service box. And so, when you hit your serve and it lands on the line of the non-volley zone, it is landing in the non-volley zone. It’s landing in the kitchen, and the rule, of course, is you must serve beyond the kitchen, pass the kitchen. So a serve that lands on that line would be considered a fault. It’s out because you got to go past the line, okay?

Now, speaking of balls that line on the line or not, this is where I’m a little bit uneasy of what we sometimes see in official rules. You may have seen pictures somewhere where it says the bottom of the ball is the size of the dime and balls don’t compress, and so if you can see half of the ball is outside the line, you can be certain that the ball is in.

Well, here’s the thing, pickleballs do compress. That is literally how bouncing works – an object falls to the ground, it compresses a certain amount, and then it rebounds off the ground again. Now, some balls compress more than others and the type of ball can be a factor, the weather can be a factor, softer balls will compress more than harder balls but then do compress a little bit. So I’m a bit uneasy with this whole dime-thing, the size of a dime. There are too many variables in play here. And I do think that’s an important thing to consider is that there is some compression, and more and more as the cameras get better that are being used. You can see this compression in action. I’ll see if I can find it. I’ve got a video – well, it was a video and I took it as a picture. I think it’s on our Instagram. (instagram.com/thirdshotsports)

Steve Deacon, a Canadian, a great Pickleball player, a great guy, hitting a volley and you can see the ball compressing against his paddle as that ball was hitting. So that proves the point that balls compress. That’s something to take into consideration as you’re playing.

 

 Playing The Point [10:34]

Okay, let’s move on here. A question, I got a question sent from someone. This was a DM on Instagram. Someone said, “Hey, my opponents and I were in the middle of a rally and ball landed and we weren’t sure if it was in or out, and they weren’t sure if it was in or out. We decided to play the point. We’re just friends. Is that okay?”

I mean it’s okay. You’re friends, you can do whatever you want, I guess. But that is not what the rules say. You should not reply the point if there was a missed call or an uncertain call. As we said earlier, this question about benefit of the doubt. And if there is some doubt, you’re not sure if it was in or out and the ball landed on your side, then you have to give that benefit of the doubt to your opponents. So in that case, if a ball lands and you’re not sure if it’s in or out, sure you could replay the point if you’re all for it and you agreed, and you want to be nice, friendly people. But in terms of the rules, you don’t replay the point.

Let’s look at the rules 6.D.3 – so proud of myself, referee, Don Stanley, a good friend of the show. I’m sure he’s smiling ear-to-ear right now knowing that I’m citing these rules. 6.D.3 says: “The opponent gets the benefit of the doubt on line calls made. Any ball that cannot be called out will be considered in” – that’s the important part of this rule. “A player cannot claim a let because the ball was not seen or there is uncertainty.” – 6.D.3, that was for you, Don.

Okay, so you don’t replay the point with your friends. Of course, you don’t always have to play it by the letter of the law when you play with friends but you should know what the letter of the law is.

We’re going to talk about more in just a moment.

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Should You Be The One Making The Call? [12:52]

 Alright, welcome back to Pickleball Problems. I’m Mark Renneson. And today, we’re talking about line calls. Here’s another question that came in, and it had to do with who on your side of the court. So you’re playing with your friend – let’s say your playing with your grandma, I’m sure she’s a very good Pickleball player, and the ball is struck and it lands on your side of the court. Which of you is allowed to call that ball out?

Well, either of you can make that line call, that is one of the rules. As a team, 6.D.1: Players are responsible for calling the lines on the side of the court. So there you go, either you can make that call out when it lands right by your grandma’s feet. But here’s what I would argue – and this is not even a rule, this is through experience. If you were the person who’s furthest away from the ball, I don’t think you should call that ball out especially if your partner seems to be playing it as though it’s in.

Now, why is that? Well, you’re the farthest one away. You have the worst view of it. Let’s imagine you and I are playing or back to you and your grandma, and your grandma’s on the right side of the court and she’s righthanded, and that ball gets hit near the sideline, and she’s right there, and you 20 feet away on the left side of the court. Maybe even further away if you’re up near the net. Your grandma’s returning serve and you’re up near the net, getting ready to pounce. You’re more than 20 feet away, you think you should be making that call? When that ball is a centimeter or two near the line, outside the line? Sure, technically you are allowed to make that call but I promise you that if – well, at least if I was on the side of the net, and your grandma appears to be playing the ball or she at least hasn’t made a call yet, and you 20 something feet away called that ball out? I’d have some questions for you.

Now, normally when I say something like this, that’s when someone says, “Oh, well you know what? She’s busy watching the ball. She is hitting the ball, so that’s what she’s paying attention to.” But I don’t buy that argument. And why is it? Well, because if you were actually watching the ball, then that means you’re watching the ball land, right? And if you’re watching the ball land, you should be able to see whether that ball has landed on the line or inside the court or outside of the court.

And it’s really important, I think, that as we are players and developing, and right now I’m not talking as much as the beginning players because I know beginning players you’re sort of overwhelmed as it is with all the things you have to worry about. To also make line calls on top of it can feel overwhelming.

But for those of you who have moved on past beginner; have been playing Pickleball for a while, you should be able to do two things at once. Prepare to hit a ball and have some awareness of where on the court it landed.

So, according to the letter of the law, yes, either of you can make that call. But in terms of the spirit of the law, kind of the ethics behind making line calls, my suggestion to you is that if you’re the one farthest away from the ball, don’t call that ball out. If it really is out, your partner who’s right there, playing the ball should be able to do it themselves.

 

Use Your Voice [15:50]

Alright, speaking of line calls, it is really important that you use your voice to make these line calls. And why is that? I see so many instances where a ball lands really close to the line – maybe it’s even going to be a winning shot if it lands in. Now, one player might know that it’s out, they watch it go past them, they see that it landed out. And they assume that because they saw that it was out, everyone else on the court knows that it was out. Sure, if the ball is five or six or seven or eight feet out, if it goes back and flies off the back fence – fine, we all know it’s out, we don’t have to say anything. But if it’s anything that’s close to the line, you should actually use your voice to call that ball out. Don’t assume that just because you saw it out, everyone else sees it out as well.

By the way, I guess I should amend a little bit what I said. There are rules related, let’s say you’re playing with someone who has trouble hearing. Well, you using your voice to call it out isn’t going to be very helpful. So in that case, it’s important that you use hand signals as well, right? So you can call the ball out with your voice, you can also a hand signal. There is a rule on this. Let’s see here… 6.D.10: “Out line calls should be promptly signaled by voice and may include a hand signal. (See Rule 13.E.2 ), regardless of how obviously the ball is out, people who are deaf or hard of hearing are allowed to use hand signals only.”

So there you go, there’s an example. The important thing here is that you indicate to the other people on the court the call that you’re making, okay? Just that you know it’s out is not good enough to call the ball out. Use your voice or use a signal or better yet, do both.

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Getting Hit By The Ball [18:28]

Welcome back to Pickleball Problems! I’m your host, Mark Renneson. Today, we’re talking about making line calls, the letter of the law, the spirit of the law, what’s written, what’s not.

What if you get hit by the ball?

Well, you know that if you get hit by the ball, you lose.
But is that really true all the time?
No, it is not. So let’s take some examples and make sure that we’re really clear on what these rules are. So here’s a situation: I’m up at the kitchen line and we’re having some great dinking battle, and you flick that ball right in my chest, and you hit me in the chest. Well, I lose, right? You win that rally regardless of where the ball ends up, regardless if it goes off the great, bulging muscles of my chest and back over the net. No, it hits your body, you’re out.

But that’s not always true. Let’s say we’re having a great dinking battle and you hit the ball and it goes right off my hand and goes off the great, big, bulging muscles of my hand, and then goes back over the net. Well, that’s it because the hand below the wrist is considered in when it’s connected with the paddle, so that’s okay.
Okay, so we take this example of the rule. If it hits your body except for the hand, you lose.

Now, that’s not just true when you’re opponent’s shot may be in play. So for example, let’s say my partner is serving and I’m standing behind the baseline with them. And the partner serves, the return gets hit really far and really fast and hits me in the chest. Well, we already know that if you get hit on the chest by the ball, you lose, and that is true in this case too. It doesn’t even matter where I’m standing. I might be standing 10 feet behind the baseline, if that ball flies and hits me in the chest, we lose that rally.

And why is that? Well, I didn’t allow the ball to bounce. My chest got in the way of it. Now, you might say, “Well, Mark, we know it was going to go out.”

No, we don’t know it was going to go out. We suspect it was going to go out. Who knows? There might have been a sudden, strong gust of wind that if my chest didn’t get in the way, it would have blown that ball back inside the baseline — who knows? We’ll never know for certain. And so, the rule is if you get by the ball even if you’re standing out of bounds, you lose.

Now, if we’re talking about rec play, things change a little bit. When you’re playing with your friends you do not usually need to follow the letter of the law as precisely as you might compare to a competitive situation, in a tournament. So sure, if you’re standing well behind the baseline and your opponents hit that ball and it’s going to go way out of bounds and you’re going to have to waste all this time retrieving it from the ball of the court – sure, catch that ball, serve up the next point, no big deal. Most reasonable people are not going to have a problem if you do that. In fact, they might be happy about it because that means you get to spend more time picking up balls and less time retrieving them.

But if you’re playing in a game that you care about the outcome or you are playing by the letter of the law, let that ball bounce because if you interfere with it before it lands, you lose the rally. And that’s true whether you’re standing inside the court or outside the court of on the line – it doesn’t matter. Even if they’re serving to your partner and you interfere with the flight of the ball, you lose.

 

See You Next Week [21:41]

And we’ll leave it there. Thanks a lot for listening in this week! If you have a Pickleball problem, you’d like me to address, feel free to send it to me, Mark@ThirdShotSports.com. It’s really fun if you can send it as a voice memo too, then I can play your question on the air, and we can hear your beautiful voice and talk about your Pickleball problem. If you want to support the show, a few ways you can do that. I already mentioned Pickleball Coaching International, if you’re a Pickleball instructor or would like to become one, then check out PCIPickleball.com and you can find out about all the really cool stuff we’re doing there.

Speaking of really cool stuff, we’re having this experiment going called The Pickleball Lab – get it? Lab experiment. It’s really Pickleball’s best online Pickleball magazine. It’s got exclusive content, that’s all it is – exclusive content, we don’t publish anywhere else. Videos and articles and audios and training challenges. I’ve done a lot of it. We’ve also commissioned some top pros to share some of their ideas. So if you really like that or if you know someone who you’d like to give a Pickleball gift to, get 12 months of this exclusive content for just $99. Check out ThePickleballLab.com.

Alright, as always, thanks for listening. Will see you next week. Bye for now.

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