Episode 43 Transcript

Sponsor: Pickleball Coaching International

(Phone ringing…)

Gizmo:    Hello?

Mark:      Hey, Jay! It’s Mark.

Gizmo:    Hey, what’s up, man? How are you?

Mark:      I’m doing okay, thanks! How are you doing?

Gizmo:    I’m doing okay as well!

Mark:      Yeah, so a lot going on for you lately.

Gizmo:    Oh, man, understatement, brother, understatement.

Mark:      Hi, there! It’s Mark from Third Shot Sports. Welcome to Pickleball Problems.

Today on the show, I speak with Jay “Gizmo” Hall. Jay is one of the most recognizable people in the Pickleball world between his mismatched Pickleball shoes, his neon tights, his wild and crazy sunglasses. He’s got a great Pickleball game too. One of the reasons I really like to speak to him was to talk about the advocacy world that he’s doing to help expand the reach that Pickleball has to communities that often don’t get to experience Pickleball the way that some of us might. Jay really wears his heart on his sleeve. I think you’re really going to enjoy this conversation. So sit back, relax, and let’s welcome Mr. Gizmo Hall.

Who is Gizmo Hall? [1:52]

Mark:      Mr. Jay “Gizmo” Hall, welcome to Pickleball Problems!

Gizmo:    Thank you, sir! Thank you, sir! Thank you for having me. I’m delighted to be on the show.

Mark:      So, in case anyone is not pretty familiar with you yet or maybe they’ve seen you in passing, maybe you can give us a 2-minute rundown on who is – I’ll go by the name that we see in social media – who is Gizmo Hall? What is he doing in Pickleball? What’s your thing in Pickleball? What’s your involvement look like these days?

Gizmo:    Alright, so Gizmo Hall is a Pickleballer out of the Virginia area that’s been playing just over two years. Two 70-year-old ladies introduced me to the sport. I was a firefighter paramedic for about 10 years before quitting my job after only playing Pickleball for about six months to chase this crazy dream to become a professional Pickleball player and change kids’ lives. I currently travel all over the United States, playing at Pickleball tournaments with the rest of everybody. We’re kind of like a big bro crew, like a traveling circus. My wife and I, we actually own Pickleball Farm in Virginia and we are in the process of forming a non-profit and getting roughly eight courts here built to try to do a bunch of kids’ stuff here. So kids are definitely my passion. I do motivational speaking at schools. I’m all about pouring in positivity. I guess that’s pretty much what you can sum it up with.

Mark:      That is a nice, tight bio, I like it!

Youth and Pickleball [3:25]

Mark:      And this is one of the things that I really find interesting about you and what you’re doing is somewhat different from what we often see. Very often, when we think about Pickleball, of course, there is the stereotype of the older players. Even if we get past that stereotype, we often think of people playing Pickleball but people who are adults. And of course, your focus and you’ve mentioned it a couple of times now, really is on kids and youth playing. I’m wondering if you can say something about why is that? Why is that demographic and area, a group of people that you wanted to target when it comes to your Pickleball work?

Gizmo:    For sure! Just speaking from my own experience, I remember when I was a youth and I didn’t have a positive role model or someone to look up to, and I know what it was like to not have that. And I know what trouble I got into as a misguided youth. So I want to try to be the liaison if you will, to give kids – disadvantage kids, race aside – the opportunity. It’s not baseball, it’s not football, it’s another sport that you can play. The average age of the sport is the senior citizen age but Pickleball is one of the only sports under 8 to over 80, it’s for everybody. If we’re talking about the longevity of the sport and truly growing it, I mean, growing it at the grassroots level to me, is the most important. Because if we wanted to keep going, teaching the youth is what we got to do.

Mark:      Right! And you mentioned it briefly here and I know you’ve been vocal in the past about your upbringing and the connection you have with the kind of childhood that you had in growing up into being an adult and that connection with what you’re doing now. I’m wondering if you can say a little bit about maybe what is the potential you see. Why Pickleball? Why not other sports that you more often see in communities where kids are hanging out or whatever? What is it about Pickleball that provides some opportunity?

Gizmo:    So for me, the word that sticks out is “Exposure” or lack thereof. I mean I live on this Earth for 31 years and I have never heard of Pickleball. I wasn’t that good at basketball, I played junior varsity. Rode the bench in varsity, probably because they needed an extra body on the team. I didn’t play any high-level sports whatsoever in my life. But I tended to have to, to try and fit in because that’s what everybody else was doing. And that’s something else that I preach now, is individuality – you don’t have to do something just to fit in, just because your friends are doing it. I never played a racket sport a day in my life but once I started playing Pickleball, honestly, I don’t care if my friends play it or not, I’ll still play Pickleball. I’m not going to let them sway what I’m doing. Kids, especially nowadays with the power of influence, the more positive influence you can provide for them, the less space that allows negative influence to creep in.

Sponsor: Selkirk Sport 

Standing Out in Pickleball [7:28]

Mark:      Well, in speaking of standing out and you’re someone — if anyone’s been at any of the major Pickleball tournaments or in the Virginia area or all over because you do so much traveling— one of the reasons that you stand out is your wardrobe, right? It is very flamboyant, as they say. You can see it from a long way away. The neon colors, the cheeseburger logo, the mismatch shoes, the bright tights. I’ve even seen you out there on the court with a cape on. That’s one of the reasons that you standout in the Pickleball world, is the clothes that you choose to wear. One of the other reasons is that you’re a person of color, and I think that most of us when we go around and play Pickleball experienced that most of the people who play Pickleball are not people of color. Sometimes it can be a difficult conversation to have. I’m wondering about what that’s like? What that’s like being a prominent person in a sport that is not prominently people of color?

Gizmo:    I don’t try to think about it in that manner, that’s just my first initial reaction to the question. But also you got to be real. I mean facts are facts. I can probably count on both hands the amount of competitors that are of the non-white descent at a lot of major tournaments — and it’s not just one tournament in one locality. As it travels around, the numbers are few and far between. Now, what I will say is it’s tough to say that it’s just exclusivity because I also think of Pickleball as a country club sport just like tennis and stuff like that. Actually, nobody who grew up in my neighborhood had access to a country club. It’s just wasn’t in the cards, it’s the reality of what it was. So we wouldn’t have gotten that exposure to the sport which is why I said it took me 31 years to even hear about this sport. It kind of branches off into why I push into the youth because a lot of the disadvantaged youth are of the non-white ethnicity. I feel like by taking the game to their community and getting them involved and showing them how much fun it is, that it can potentially largely diversify the demographic of the sport as a whole. Couldn’t we agree that that’s one of the benefits of growing the sport for everybody?

 Mark:      Right! So it’s not that there’s anything inherently white about Pickleball. It has more to do with the ability for everyone to be able to have access, to have experience, to be able to try out, to have kids instead of like you’ve mentioned before, there are basketball courts over here, how great would be if there are basketball courts over here and right beside it there are Pickleball courts, right? And access to equipment that people can use? So is that kind of the driver with the work that you’re doing is, “Hey, how can we give as many people access to this great sport that we all love?” but make sure that that access is sort of equally distributed everywhere, at least starting to move in that direction.

 Gizmo:    Change starts with us. We can sit back Monday Morning quarterback it all day long but change effectively starts with us. So personally, I like to hook up with different people around the country where I’m going, and if we can get a kids clinic setup, I’ll do free kids’ clinics. When I was at the Atlanta Fall Classic last year, I drove 45 minutes to an hour away from the venue, to the west side of Atlanta and one of the guys in the area had invited a bunch of kids out. We had like 30 kids out there, parents out there, we had stuff on the grill, playing Pickleball. I’ve got a video of it on my social media. But this what really it hurts, I mentioned it multiple times to different people at the tournament, and there were a guy and his wife.

 The guy said, “Gizmo, you’re doing that? I want to come help.”

 And I told him where it was and his wife was like, “Oh, no, no! We don’t go on that side of that town.”

 I was just like, “What?”

I mean we’re not even going in the hood. We are at McGhee Tennis Center, a legit tennis center. We were over there, there were over 30 people. The only non-black person that was there was my wife. Do you know how embarrassing that was? You got how many top pros in the Pickleball community in one general locale. And again, I’m not bashing them because youth is on my heart, you know what I’m saying? This is my vision. But do you know how much more it could have meant to have one or two more pros go especially that don’t look like those little kids come to interact with them, have fun with them, play Pickleball with them? Do you know how much that could have meant to those kids? Again, I can’t fault them because that may not be their vision. They may be channeling their vision in other avenues that I just don’t see, and that’s cool. It’s not for me to judge. But I definitely see a lot of missed opportunities to spread the word Pickleball to the non-white community demographic, if you will. And I say non-white because it’s not just white and black. You got your Hispanics, you got your mixed-race individuals. But race is irrelevant – it should be irrelevant, rather.

Mark:      Right! And then this leads to a broader discussion that’s been going on outside of Pickleball world right now which has to do with equity and people having access and everywhere having sort of a fair shot at opportunities. And what we’re talking about now which sort of stems from discussions that we’ve been having online lately, is that whether we’re talking about something big like let’s say opportunity in life or we’re talking about smaller, more precise issues such as access to Pickleball courts, opportunities to learn and play at clinics that are affordable, access to equipment so everyone can get out there — that not everyone has the same kind of opportunities as everyone else. And I hear what you’re saying especially when we think about how exciting it can be for people who watch Pickleball or who see it sometimes online and they see their heroes that are out there. Sure, Gizmo is one of their heroes out there, but the other people as well that they’re seeing on the podiums winning medals, that sort of thing, might be a good opportunity for upcoming Pickleball players to be able to have that proximity. We see that all the time in other communities. It’s a tough nut to crack and it’s a problem that we’re facing here.  What do you think? If you were to wave your magic wand – maybe you have a magic wand underneath that cape, I don’t know – but if you were to wave your magic wand and make some changes to Pickleball in general or to the structure of Pickleball, or to clinics or to the direction that you see different organizations are going, I’m wondering what you think you would do with that magic wand? What kinds of changes that you would like to see?

Sponsor: Jigsaw Health

Gizmo’s Magic Wand [17:38]

Mark:      If you were to wave your magic wand – maybe you have a magic wand underneath that cape, I don’t know. But if you were to wave your magic wand and make some changes to Pickleball in general or to the structure of Pickleball, or to clinics or to the direction that you see different organizations are going, I’m wondering what you think you would do with that magic wand? What kinds of changes that you would like to see?

Gizmo:    That’s a big vision with a very broad scope on it because I do consider Pickleball for all. I get it – it cost to build courts. Outdoor, dedicated courts, I’ve seen numbers 10 grand and up. And I get it, everybody doesn’t have access to that. I would personally would like to see us stand together as a Pickleball community. Maybe not redirect our efforts but everybody wants to get Pickleball on the Olympics which again, that’s neither here nor there. But I guess there are certain requirements that it has to be accessible to X amount of percentage of countries around the world to potentially qualify as an Olympic sport, and that’s awesome. Now, what if that same energy was kept on introducing Pickleball or spreading Pickleball into the disadvantaged youth or disadvantaged areas, neighborhoods, school districts if you will. What would that look like, you know?

Again, I know as a kid I got into some trouble and I can honestly say that if I had learned Pickleball at a young age, I probably wouldn’t have gotten into as much trouble as I did. Pickleball is addictive. You talk to any Pickleball player that you know, they’ll tell everybody’s got an addiction story. They just love it. It just provides an out for people who may not have an out otherwise. I’d love to see schools, all gym floors – they already have the gym floor – local Pickleball communities donating nets, donating tape, donating their time to go in and teach the kids. Just pour into the demographic that we’re missing. I feel like it’s just a huge discrepancy. I spoke in middle schools and every time I go, I take nets. I leave the nets there two, three nets at a time. I leave paddles there. I leave balls there. I leave tape there. I tell them that to use me as a resource, whatever you all need to help push and promote Pickleball to anybody inside this school, you got me and I’m an indispensable resource. So I went to one school two times. The assistant superintendent of middle school for the county caught wind of it. I went and had a meeting with him because I also motivational speak to the kids.

And he said, “I’ll put you in front of any kid as many kids as you want.”

And I said, “No, I want you to put me in front of all of your kids.”

I already said right before COVID happened, to start going to all 16 middle schools in this district teaching Pickleball, donating nets, balls, working with the teachers to get afterschool programs started. And then, he wanted me to – in the Fall, there is a big state conference – wanted me to present at the state conference for all of the PE teachers in the state so that they can then go back and take Pickleball back to their respective schools. So at that point, you are taking race out of it because anybody under that school’s supervision is now getting access to Pickleball.

Mark:      That’s a nice example to highlight, not just the work that you do, but really when one person dedicates their time and their effort and their energy to it, and their commitment to it, one person can make a pretty big difference. What I heard you say earlier was imagine if we, as a larger Pickleball community, start to really prioritize expanding the number of people that get involved in Pickleball — expanding the groups of people that get involved — how much exponential power that could have.

Gizmo:    It’s like a domino effect. I feel like people get behind good-hearted gestures. And I feel like people can see that introducing Pickleball to the youth is a good gesture. I had a lady send me a cheque the other day. She said she would like to make an anonymous donation for $500 for me building these courts at Pickleball Farm. I’ve met this lady maybe one or two times but how long would it have taken me because I’m going on the Facebook marketplace getting free wood. I bought a wood splitter, I’m splitting it, I’m going to seel and I’m going to use those funds to build the courts here. She saw the vision and got behind it. again, I met her once or twice. She sent me a cheque for $500 and doesn’t want to be recognized for it. Now, how long would it have taken me to make that $500? And that goes to speak to what if we band together to really blow this thing out of the water as far as exposing everybody to Pickleball?

Mark:      So hearing that story, I wonder to what extent it’s kind of like a vicious circle, right? Whereas you say, people when they are exposed to good work and important projects, that many of them will then find ways to get behind. Whether it’s like this woman who donated the money, whether it’s people who donate their time or their expertise. One of the challenges is just making people aware of the project, making people aware of the problem that they’re trying to solve. And I think partly back to this connection of okay when we look at the demographics of Pickleball players, we see that it’s very heavily white people playing. And we know that there are very often people who live in communities where they don’t see people who don’t look like them as often. I’m wondering whether part of the problem comes from people – not even being on the radar as an issue, right? That they’re not seeing that, “Hey, there is this problem that we can maybe try to solve. Hey, there is this good deed that could happen.” Because if you’re not exposed to people who live different lives that you do, or you’re not exposed to the people that don’t have access to the same facilities you do, then you don’t even recognize that this is an issue worth addressing.

Gizmo:    Correct, correct. And I do believe that that train of thought can be split up into two different subsets if you will. There is the person who just truly may be oblivious to the fact because they truly don’t base anybody on color and are naively, subconsciously not thinking about it. So I almost can’t fault them to a degree. Because again, if you don’t know, then how can you be at fault? But then there is the other side where it’s like people who aren’t directly affected by an issue believe that that issue doesn’t exist, and I personally don’t feel that that is a fair assessment especially to the person who the discrimination or exclusion is happening to. It’s like the thing being protested will never be happy with how the protestors are protesting – does that make sense?

Mark:      I think it does.

Racism in Pickleball [27:07]

Mark:      And we spoke earlier how this conversation today came out of some online conversations that were happening. And I know specifically, it was about or at least one of the threads had to do with racism in Pickleball. I sort of expected when I saw those comments coming in, I kind of expected that it could heated. What I didn’t expect — what surprised me was how often the answer I saw it doesn’t happen. There is no racism in Pickleball. “Pickleball is a game everyone can play.”, “There is no racism in Pickleball.”, “I’ve never seen it, therefore, it doesn’t exist.”, seems to be the kind of logic that was certainly not always being used and I don’t think I’m surprised that you saw it at all. But to me, in these particular threads, I was surprised at how often I saw white people just dismissing racism as not a thing that goes in Pickleball as tho somehow Pickleball was shielded from the racism that exists in the culture at large.

Gizmo:    Yeah, so can you and I agree that this is an imperfect world we live in?

Mark:      I think we can agree on that.

Gizmo:    Okay. Can we also agree that there are forms of racism that exist to this day of June 22, 2020?

Mark:      I think we can agree on that too.

Gizmo:    Okay. And the last one, can you agree that racism of today may not look like the racism of the 1960s or prior?

Mark:      I think yeah, I would agree. It can take different shades and different forms and be less overt compared to how it might have been in the past.

Gizmo:    Okay, so at least we’re there logically. I say that to say this: If we can say that there is racism in the world and the people that Pickleball is the same people that live in the world, how can one be so quick to just dismiss that without a shadow of a doubt, unapologetically, unequivocally, absolutely, it is not possible, it doesn’t happen – no, it just ain’t. Wait? Are we talking about the same people?

Mark:      (laughs…)

Gizmo:    But it’s just saying not all people in the world are racist and not people in Pickleball are racist. But if they are some of the same people, maybe you can explain it for me more — I don’t know.

Mark:      Yeah, what I felt as part of this conversation went into, Kim Sharpton posted a video that really just took me aback and I’ll include the link to the video in the show notes here for this podcast. But one of the things that Kim, who’s also a black man, talked about how much he loves Pickleball, how much he loves the Pickleball community, and he talked about how many he friends he has in this Pickleball world. And for him, he said, “Look, if I’m your friend and I’m telling you that this thing is happening to me, even if you haven’t seen it yourself but yet we’re friends, won’t you at least listen to me? Won’t you give me the benefit of the doubt that it’s happening and ask me more about it and look into it?”

And I think he was sort of taken aback as well about how often claim that discrimination exists, just kind of like the conversation gets shut down, right? No, it doesn’t happen here. No, it doesn’t happen with me. No, I’ve never seen it. And what he was trying to appeal to was whether or not you’ve seen it, whether or not you’re aware that you’ve seen it, if I’m telling you – someone who is your friend – if I’m telling you that this is the thing that goes on, it really hurts when it just gets dismissed because you don’t think you’ve seen it.

Sponsor: Pickleball Coaching International

Mark:      If I’m telling you that this is the thing that goes on, it really hurts when it just gets dismissed because you don’t think you’ve seen it.

 Gizmo:    When I watched that interview, I cried like a baby, and I’ve got no problems admitting that. A big hats off to Kim Sharpton for even being mature enough to be able to compose his thoughts well enough, to be able to express it to the masses – that takes a lot. And to his point, like you said, if you are my friend which I think is a word that gets thrown completely out of context. Like the word “Love”, people just throw it around, and I feel like it’s kind of diminished the true meaning of the word but we’ll go with it. If you are my friend or you say that you are my friend, I tell you I am your friend, if I tell you something hurts, how can you be so quick to just deny it and shut it down without even remotely asking me any more questions about who, what, when, where and why at a bare minimum. Just as a friend, if I tell you I wrecked my motorcycle, if I call you, Mark, “Hey, man! I wrecked my motorcycle.”

Are you going to be like, “You ain’t wrecked your motorcycle, man. Stop playing.”

Mark:      (chuckles…)

Gizmo:    Or are you going to be like, “Man, are you alright? Are you at the hospital? Do you need a ride?”

What can I do to help you fix this problem because you are my friend and I  want to help my friend because that’s what friends do. Is that a good analogy?

Mark:      Yeah, I mean I was also moved by that video and watched it a few times. I encourage anyone else to watch it in its entirety. Like I said, we’ll post it below.

I guess one of the things when we have these conversations, and we put this podcast together, sometimes I try to put myself in the shoes of who I think our listeners are, and I realized different kinds of listeners come from different perspectives. But I’m wondering if some of our listeners are thinking to themselves racism or prejudice might happen in other places but doesn’t happen where I am. We have people who look all sorts of different ways who come and play at my courts, and I’ve never seen an instance of racism on our Pickleball courts. I’m wondering if you’d be willing to share, for the benefit of our listeners, what does that look like? Are there examples of – like you said earlier, maybe it’s not as overt as, “Sorry, you can’t play here!” as it may have been when you’re talking about decades ago how overt racism was just sort of power for the course, but the more subtle ways that it might show itself. And the more subtle ways that people who if they weren’t actively looking for it or they weren’t on the receiving end of it themselves, the kinds of things that they might start to see now would be like, “Oh, wait a second. That’s an example of it.” Are there any sort of more subtle examples you can give? Either one you’ve encountered yourself or either on or off a Pickleball court? Do you know what I mean? Can you help kind of guide our listeners a little bit about what they might see?

Gizmo:    For sure, yeah. I personally don’t like speaking on other people’s experiences because I feel like they can be like the game of Telephone and can get convoluted, so I like speaking from personal experiences. So I can at least count back and recall three times where I walked into a place to play Pickleball or a gym, and I walk up to the place to pay my fee and they’re like, “Hello. Can I help you?”

And I was like, “I’m here to play Pickleball.”

And I’m a good body language reader. I try to pay attention to my surroundings and stuff like that. When you can see disgust or angst or just like, “Wait, what? You’re here to play what? – No!”

It’s just like I have to convince you like, “No, I have a paddle in my backpack. My shirt says “Pickleball”. I don’t understand why it’s so odd or striking you as so odd that I’m here to play Pickleball.”

And she literally said, “No, there’s just not a lot of black people that come play.”

Why would you say that? How is that even relevant? What does the color of my skin have to do with anything? I am a paying customer, walking into your facility, and you sit there and tell me that, “Oh, not a lot of black people come here to play.” You can’t do that, you shouldn’t do that, rather.

Mark:      Right, it sort of reinforces that stereotype, right? Like this is for certain people to play and not others.

Gizmo:    Absolutely, absolutely! I would say that that’s the most blatant, the most egregious if you will, occurrence. But I’ve been walking at tournaments and people come up to me, they’re like, “Hey, man! You from Jamaica?”

And it’s just like, “No, I live in Virginia.”

Mark:      (laughs…)

Gizmo:    And I’ve had that four or five times, and the first time it was just like, “Oh, okay, maybe because of the dreadlocks.” But it’s just like is every black person from Jamaica? Every black person with dreadlocks? Again, it’s not so noticeable but to say that it doesn’t hurt a little bit would be a lie.

Mark:      Right. And I think it’s also to fair to say that in those two examples that you gave, you’re having to deal with offense from other people, from strangers often, that white people just don’t have to deal with in the Pickleball world, right? This is an additional thing like, “Oh, wait.” And this is something that Kim Sharpton talked about as well was like that sort of surprise, “Wait a second, you’re here for Pickleball? Shouldn’t you be at the basketball courts over there?”

And if we’re talking about how Pickleball is supposed to be a welcoming sport and it’s accessible to everyone, that sort of surprise that someone would be showing up or possibly even disbelief that they’re here for that I think sort of runs counter to that idea that Pickleball is something for everybody.

Gizmo:    Absolutely, absolutely! I tried to chalk it up as just another hump that I need to crush. I’m not going to go around but I just need to knock it down. It’s just another barrier standing in my way. It’s not my fault but it’s my responsibility to try and make it better which is why I try to spread the game of Pickleball to anybody I can. I’ve been at concerts and people were like – because I only wear my cheeseburger stuff everywhere I go – and people were like, “Oh, what’s Pickleball?”

And I mean, at a concert, I’m front row but I’m showing videos and stuff of Pickleball. I don’t care what color you are. Exposure is what my main goal is to those that don’t know about Pickleball.

Expanding Pickleball [41:40]

Mark:      Right. And I guess this whole conversation about Pickleball expanding, being welcoming from everyone, it can go in a few different directions, right? One is this social justice direction where it’s we want everyone to have a fair shake, we want everyone to have access no matter what community you come from, no matter what your background is.

We could also go in another direction which is, “Hey, we talked about spreading the Pickleball love. We talked about growing the game.” And I wonder if sometimes what we may be talking about or some people in the Pickleball community are talking about expanding the game in certain places but not even trying to expand it to other places, right? It’s something you talked about a little bit, touched on with that example in Atlanta.

To me, the third example we could talk about, if I’m someone who is involved in the Pickleball business and whether I’m someone who is a paddle manufacturer, whether I’m someone who’s making Pickleball shoes, whether I’m someone who makes pickleballs, whether I’m someone who makes nets, whether I’m someone who provides Pickleball lessons, I can see nothing but good things happening if we can expand the market of Pickleball players by expanding the demographics of the people who feel like they’re welcome and who see themselves when they’re watching YouTube clips or they’re watching TV when they have the big tournaments, who see themselves reflected up there. That seems, even just like a business perspective, it seems like a smart move to want to expand those markets.

Gizmo:    Yeah, but then there is also the other side of the coin which I’m not saying is right. But as a business, you look at buying power. If there is not a lot of non-white players that play Pickleball, that means that the monetary revenue is largely in part not coming from the non-white community. So again, as a business, why would you want to invest resources in something that’s not helping your bottom dollar? (chuckles…)

Mark:      Yeah, I mean it’s tricky, right? Because what we’re doing sort of going down this line is we’re blending both class and race, right? Like if we’re talking about is there is a community over there that we want to expand, accept as a community, let’s say there is not going to be as much buying power. They’re not going to be dropping $150 on a new paddle – they’re not going to be doing that. Then let’s invest our time and energy elsewhere, right? And so, yeah, it does get a little bit trickier when we combine class and race; although, class and race are often combined.

It’s an interesting problem and I think also as we look at Pickleball expanding on a global level, you mentioned earlier how there are certain factions in the Pickleball world trying to get Pickleball considered as an Olympic sport. I personally think that’s a long way off and I’m kind of with you, I’m neither here nor there. But it’s certainly not going to get off the ground until it actually becomes an international sport, right? Played internationally in many different countries and not just here and there in small pockets but in the mainstream. And so, I think there is a lot of work to do there to start to make it a game where people can look – I think this is a huge part of it, and we see this in other sports as well. When people are looking for their heroes, when they’re looking at the top, when they’re looking at what’s broadcasted on the networks when they show Pickleball or what’s broadcasted on Youtube, it’s like seeing themselves reflected in what their watching, and I think that is something that it sounds like you’re doing a lot; working with kids, going to schools, not just on the Pickleball court but doing those talks To me, it sounds like that’s a real step in the right direction. It might be a small step and a step that one person is taking or a handful of people. You mentioned other people in Atlanta, there is Coach Clark in Atlanta as well who is really active, but I think it’s really important. Pickleball, as a whole, benefits when people like you are doing that kind of work.

Gizmo:    For sure! And I mean, when I was in elementary school, I specifically remember we had a motivational speaker come in, and he was a Washington Redskin Football player. This guy looked nothing like me, this guy had no stories that I could relate to, this guy did not make the connection.

It is so important especially at the youth level, you have got to make that connection because that connection is the foundation. If you don’t make that connection, that youth is gone, they will disconnect. So I literally sat there, and he told me I could be the best that I want to be, I can do anything I want, blah, blah, blah. But I had already checked out once he started talking. Because I’m like, “You have not walked through my shoes.” And I’m not saying that your shoes aren’t worn out from your walk, but I can’t relate to your walk.

And the thing that I try to do when I go to schools to speak to children is I don’t put a shirt and tie on. I go straight cheeseburgered-up, glasses, hat, hair up, mismatched shoes, all of that. But from the time that I walk through that door, I got those kids’ attention, you know what I’m saying?

They are like, “Who is this? What’s this guy? Look at this guy. What?”

And then, I break it down even further to show them like I was in that exact same sit that you all are in. I barely – sixth grade, I had 26 referrals. Seventh grade, I got expelled after 22. I graduated high school with a 1.2 GPA – I shouldn’t have graduated. But again, I have real, tangible points that they can relate to because again, I’m in the same neighborhood or the same area, the same type of environment, the same demographic of the schools that I went to, so I know what they are going through.

So I’m not sitting there reading them a story of Jimmy John down the street – I’ve been shot four times! I’m missing a finger. I got a titanium rod in my leg. But I say all that to say this: You set your mind to it and you grind, anything is possible. I’m not just in there waiving my finger like, “Yeah, little Johnny! Just keep trying. You can do it! — no, no, no. I’m a perfect picture of absolute failure and utter chaos, rock-bottom, but still grinding and grinding and able to come out on top. I feel like I make a connection with the youth of any color much better than somebody who comes in like I said, that motivational speaker when I was in elementary school.

Mark:      Right. And I have no doubts that you capture their attention when you walk into the school.

Conclusion [49:37]

Mark:      Hey, we’re coming up to the end of our chat right now. If you happen to capture the attention of some of our listeners, and they want to learn more about what you’re doing or get in contact or who knows – help build that Pickleball Farm, what are the best ways that people can find out what you are doing?

Gizmo:    Man, you can probably just send a carrier pigeon with a picture of a cheeseburger and it will probably find its way to me, man, and I ain’t even lying!

Mark:      (chuckles…)

Gizmo:    But yeah, I’m all over every social media platform. I really don’t use Twitter but Facebook: GIZMO Pickleball.

We also have Pickleball Farm. YouTube: Gizmo Pickleball, appreciate any new subscribers for sure. I upload matches and I commentate different matches.

Instagram: Gizmo Pickleball and Pickleball Farm or GizmoPickleball.com.

Mark:      Alright, it’s all over the place. Link to all of those in our show notes as well, so people can find out about you and get in touch if they want to.

Jay “Gizmo” Hall, I’m really happy. I really appreciate you taking the time talking with me and I know these are not always easy issues to talk about but I think they’re important. I really appreciate you going through some of them with me.

Gizmo:    Thank you from myself and from the, I would say, the minority community. We appreciate you for even wanting to have these conversations. Because just having these conversations is what can truly affect change, so we appreciate you, Mark!

Mark:      Alright, we’ll keep the conversation going and I hope to talk to you soon. I hope to see you soon in person when the Canada-US border finally gets opened.

Gizmo:    Absolutely!

Mark:      But until then, I’ll be watching you on all the social media as well. Really appreciate it, Jay!

Gizmo:    Awesome, man! Have a great day!

Mark:      Alright, take care! You too!

Mark:      And we’ll leave it there. I want to say a special thanks to Gizmo Hall for joining me to have this conversation. Not always a comfortable one, but an important one nonetheless.

I want to thank you for joining us as well. Check the show notes here. We posted all of the links so you can get in contact with Jay if you want to talk to him about what he’s doing at Pickleball Farm, what he’s doing in schools, and see his social media. So just check those show notes, you’ll be able to find everything to get in touch with him.

Alright, until next time. Stay safe out there and we’ll see you soon!