024 | Those Callie Feet

Morgan:  My guest today is a rising star in the game, bursting on the scene with such intensity that I swear I can hear AC DC’s “Thunderstruck” every time she walks on the court. She is beauty and the beast. Please welcome the one and only, Callie Smith. 

Hot Property [0:40]

Morgan:  Callie, good to have you on the show!

Callie:  Good to be on it. Thanks for the invite.

Morgan:  Yeah, no worries! You’re hot property these days — up and coming, a couple of great results recently. How are you feeling about your game? 

Callie:  I’m feeling really good, actually. I feel really solid. 

Morgan:  Excellent! So recently you’ve had a couple of bronze medal performances, one with Irena and one with Michelle. What was it like with Michelle? I’ve never played a tournament with her, but she’s so much fun.

Callie:  She is really fun. Fun isn’t enough. She’s very energetic and I love it. She has fun out there and that’s what I love in a partner, is got to be able to have fun but you also need to be able to work hard, and she’s willing to do both. And I’ve actually really enjoyed playing with her.

Morgan:  Nice! Are you two planning to team up again?
Callie:  Got a couple of tournaments. We’re playing the PPA Vegas tournament together, so that will be fun. We’ve got Hawaii coming up together. Maybe a couple more PPAs — we’ll see, haven’t decided quite yet. 

Morgan:  Beautiful! I’m sure there will be a stunning success. 

Now, you grew up in  a large family, six kids. It kind of reminds me a little bit of the Newman family. And one thing I think you guys have in common is the competitiveness. Do you think that kind of stems from competing so much with siblings, for food and attention? 

Callie:  Absolutely! When we were born, I was bigger than my twin sister and so I was — it’s kind of been a joke that I enjoyed food more and stole the food. But then I came out with bruises so she was like the more feisty one. So it’s kind of been the same, like all the way through our lives. (chuckles…) I’m still the food person, eating food is like my favorite thing ever, and she’s still more feisty, if you can believe it. 

Morgan:  (chuckles…) Oh, more feisty than you? Jeez! 

Callie:  Yeah, yeah.

Morgan:  Alright, well, where is she? How come she’s not playing pickleball. You guys won the Utah state together. 

Callie:  Yeah, so we played tennis together. Our freshman year we both went to BYU and then I transferred. My whole family plays tennis, we’re like a tennis family. It was very competitive there. But then once I got into Pickleball, I was trying to convert them all and they kind of had my view on it. At first, it was kind of a joke or an old person’s sport or it’s a waste some time but I work out playing tennis. Anyways, any excuse for them not to play. And now that they see it can be competitive, my twin sister, her name’s Kelsey, she actually kind of wants to pursue it a little bit more. But she’s got a two-year-old now and she goes, “Dang it! I just wish I would have gotten into it when you did, and now it’s kind of too late right now.” 

I’m like, “No, it’s not. You can still play.”

Morgan:  Yeah, come on!

Callie:  A little tougher with kids. 

Morgan:  I can imagine. I often see you at a tournament with kids in tow. It seems to work out. Do you take some motivation, some inspiration from the kids watching mama out there doing her thing?

Callie:  I do, actually. My mom actually asked me, she said, “Does it stress you out when you’re playing?”

I’m like, “Actually, it doesn’t because I trust my husband are watching them. He’s really good with the kids.” 

And I actually love it. If I hear their voices or see them, they’re like, “Good job, mom!”

It’s just like – melts my heart and calms me down, and like, “Okay, I can do this. I got this. I got my little supporters, my little crowd.”

Morgan:  I think it will all swimmingly well until the day comes where you hear that little voice saying, “Mom, I think you were in the kitchen,” in which case, yes, you will need to put them in the car.

Callie:  But for now, it works out. 

Morgan:  For now, it works out.

How Pickleball Started [4:04]

So, in reading about how you got started with Pickleball, it’s kind of a common story in terms of people generally underestimate how difficult Doubles is. You’ve come from a fantastic tennis background and it’s a bit of a misconception for a lot of elite level tennis players, just to assume that they can come in and rule the roost Singles or Doubles, but you had a bit of the tough go against some elderly ladies in a par? Did you ever get revenge? 

Callie:  We have actually, since then. Me and my husband — I guess we shouldn’t say against them, but we have seen them play and we’re just like, “Oh my gosh, this is where we were. We’ve improved a lot. Here’s where we are now.” They’re the ones who got us into it. I actually went up and told them you guys are our inspiration by killing us.

Morgan:  Oh, that’s so nice!

Callie:  You made us want to be better and improve. Yeah, you’re exactly right, we just got nailed. 

Morgan:  Wow! You’ll never forget those losses. But they, as you said, inspired you to become who you are now. 

Now, you’re getting started with a Pickleball academy. How long has that been in the works? And when do you think you’ll break ground, so to speak?

Callie:  So I got started last year. I’ve had a lot of people asking me. I’ve taught tennis since I was like 15 years old. So I’ve been teaching tennis for over 15 years now and love it. And with Pickleball, I mean, it’s like, “Oh, do you ever teach Pickleball?” I’m like, “I play it. It’s more just for fun.” But why not spread the love and share it? So I started to teach Pickleball and it’s kind of grown like wildfire. And now, I have more lessons than I can count and not enough time to do it all. And so I started hosting some clinics and they’re all filled. I put them up at night thinking it would take a week or so to get filled, and they’d be filled that night. And so I’m like, “Oh my gosh!” There’s just such a need for lessons and people are wanting to take them and get better just like I wanted to get better. And I’m more than happy to do it and I love it. It’s just how am I going to do all this all the time? And so I started talking to my husband, Kyle, about it and say, “Hey, like, what if we started like a little academy?” It’s pleasant here in Utah. It gets really cold in the winter time, so there’s no real way to play except for rec centers, and those are full all the time anyways. So I thought if we could just do like an indoor facility somewhere and just do that all year and be able to run programs through it, junior programs, adult programs, maybe some leagues, maybe open play. Anyways, just kind of started brainstorming and thought of do an academy. So it’s in the works at the moment. We’re still figuring out our plan. We’re looking at places to rent right now and then maybe in the future, to build, so we’ll see. 

Morgan:  That’s awesome! That’s so good! It is one of the few sports that is just such an addiction that none of these people who take lessons from you really have a choice anymore. They’re going to keep coming back for lessons and they’re going to find themselves playing every day. So you just got to let me know if you need an assistant coach up there.

Callie:  I will. 

Morgan:  Excellent!

Callie:  Honestly, I will, so if you’re open to it every once in a while.

Morgan:  (chuckles…) I accept food stamps, peanuts, general food stuff. 

Callie:  Perfect!

Morgan:  Brilliant! Wow, that was a good idea. This whole podcast was a ruse, really? That was just a job interview.

Callie:  I knew it!

Morgan:  You knew it? Well, very clever! 

So Kyle plays as well?

Callie:  He does. We’ve kind of picked it up together, but then he kind of holds the fort down and lets me do my thing now. 

Morgan:  Wow! I do love a good role-reversal. Very nice! 

Callie:  Yeah, he’s amazing. I couldn’t do it without him. He’s the real hero in my family.

Morgan:  He’s standing next to you, isn’t he? He can hear what you’re saying.

Callie:  He’s really not. next week. I should have had him next to me, get some brownie points. 

Morgan:  For sure! Well, with any luck, he’ll listen to it. 

Callie Feet [7:36]

Morgan:  Now I’ve played against you a couple of times, two or three, maybe. And from the get go, the one thing I noticed was the sheer level of footwork. There are split steps, there’s happy feet, and then there’s “Callie Feet”. I’m so curious if you can maintain that level of intensity through the whole day? And how do you do it? 

Callie:  I can believe it or not. I always move my feet a lot in tennis, maybe more than I needed to, just help me focus and get in position for all the shots, and it’s carried over to Pickleball. But because it’s such a smaller court, it’s I guess a little easier to maintain it. I mean, it’s longer playing time, so the matches aren’t over the whole course of the day. By the end of the day, I’m tired, but I feel like I’m in pretty good shape to maintain it. I have figured out some easier ways to move than just sidestep, sidestep. I kind do more of a cross-over step now and trying to find easier ways to get better instead of…

Morgan:  It’s a learning curve that often takes players a long time to figure it out how Pickleball efficiency works compared to tennis. It’s not quite the same thing. So if you’ve already figured out the virtue of the cross-step, especially on that forehand side, which is usually pretty foreign for a good-level tennis player to crossover so heavily, but sometimes it’s needed, isn’t it?

Callie:  Yes. When I’m playing against you guys, I’m like, “How come you guys don’t move? How do you get in position?  You just stand there and you’re fine? I can’t do that.” So I had to still use my “Callie Feet” – it’s the new version. 

Morgan:  It’s good. I found when you were opposite me and I was thinking, “Okay, now’s a good time. The ball’s on my forehand. I’ll attack down the line.”
That “Callie Feet” got you either just back off the line enough or out of the way of the ball enough to get you enough room around the ball to make me pay for it. And it was, I don’t want to say embarrassing, but it was kind of embarrassing how quickly the ball was coming back at me, and I vowed then to basically just try and keep myself cross-court from you. Let the girls fight it out. Come on!

Callie:  I love it! Didn’t know ahead of time that you felt that way. I just knew I really wanted to win. 

Morgan:  Well, I saw that too. I was like, “Gosh, she really wants to win it. And you know what, she wants this more than me. Let’s just give it to her. Come on!”

No, but my partner never had agreed with that. But it was a good kind of eye-opening thing for me to see just how your type of foot work, because it is a type of footwork in that there are a lot of people out there that essentially keep a wide stance and don’t do a whole lot. They tend to want to keep their balance, but are looking to utilize possibly a less conventional grip and to expand their sort of comfort zone around their body with that grip versus a yourself. I’m in the same boat in terms of grip. We’re basically using a continental for dinks and reflex volleys.

Do you ever change grips or are you continental most of the time? 

Callie:  I use continental most of the time I do change grips on my drive. So if I drive or serve, it’s a different grip. I use more of a Semi-Western, kind of from tennis.

Morgan:  Okay.

Callie:  But drops and dinks and then volleys and overheads, all that — continental.

Morgan:  Have you found it tricky to teach people the virtue of changing grips throughout the game?

Callie:  To tennis, I feel like grips are super important. You have to do it in order to hit the shot at the best way possible. But in Pickleball, I’ve seen so many different grips and different styles work. It’s like I’ve adapted my teaching style to work with what someone’s more comfortable with.

Morgan:  Good, good. Well, then this academy of ours is going to be brilliant!

Callie:  I do think there are better ways to do something and more effective way to do something, and I’ll share that opinion with them. But I leave it up to them, if they want to, because it’s their game, right?

Morgan:  For sure! And as long as people like Jeff Warnick and Brian Ashworth and various people out there who are able to succeed and win at the pro level with some pretty odd-looking grips. I mean, I hear Jeff has never actually hit a backhand — everything’s a forehand. So his paddles last twice as long as everyone else’s paddles.

Callie:  He does that windshield wiper. I don’t know how he does that by work but it works.

Morgan:  It’s so frustrating for him to be 6”7 or something with that kind of grip. Jeez! It’s not fun. 

Callie:  Yeah.

Morgan:  But then you’ve got you, the other side of the coin, is moving laterally so quickly that you get the ball in your comfort zone with that. For me, I think as a long-term solution, that’s it. If you can stay in shape and your energy levels can support that kind of activity, then all power to you.

Callie:  Thanks! For now, it works. So maybe down the road, I have to adapt, but that’s what I love about the game is you can always find something better to do. You can always learn from it. 

Morgan:  And have you already started teaching the kids their frantic split steps? 

Callie:  I have.

Morgan:  Really? Seriously?

Callie:  I have. For real, yeah. My four-year-old, actually is pretty good. She hit 12 balls in a row, back and forth with me the other day. I was loving it.

Morgan:  Oh, that’s adorable. You’ve got to put that on your Callie Joe Pickleball Facebook site. Everyone will love that, that’d be great!

Sponsor: CoachMe Pickleball 

What Makes Them Great [12:53]

Morgan:  Footwork as a broad topic, and one that interests me very much. I’ve seen the highest level of men’s and women’s professional Doubles in both tennis and Pickleball for many years now. But I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a quicker, first step than what Callie possessives. She puts raw, unbridled energy into every component of her movement, but it all starts off with the split-step.

You may have indeed heard that term before, but perhaps never truly appreciate it until you’ve experienced the benefits. Performing a split-step is as simple and as difficult as creating a wide base and pushing up off the ground typically at the moment, just before your opponent is contacting the ball. 

In the moment that Callie performs a split-step, even if it’s not the entire foot that leaves the ground, she’s effectively unweighting herself, so that when she lands there is both balance and momentum. That momentum back down to the earth is what helps propel her in any direction, usually to whack a volley winner. I imagine that before Kelly was a great tennis player and an even greater Pickleball player, she was probably All-American at hopscotch. Best split-step in the game for my money!

More from Callie [14:03]

Morgan:  Okay, let’s get back over to Callie for some more insight into her game and what might help you win a couple more matches.

Now, onto the two-handed backhand; controversial topic here, two-handed backhands. You often put it to good use. For all the players out there that are kind of aspiring to just improve, but possibly get to the pro level, do you have any kind of advice on when you think the two-hander is appropriate and not so much? 

Callie:  So I started out with the one-hand because I didn’t feel like the grip was long enough. I played tennis with a two-handed backhand, but you have the one-handed slice and one-handed volleys, so I was fine hitting the one-hand. I thought, “Gosh, I just feel like I’m just missing out on power or strength with my one hand, just with ground strokes and drives. I need to figure out how to do it with my two hands because that’s what I’m used to.” So I just, if I overlap my hands a little bit I found that I could still do my two-handed backhand. So I kind of switch between the two but I just feel like I have a better, some reason, a better reaction time when I’m up to the non-volley zone line or from baseline. So I’ll still switch between the two because I love my two-handed now. 

Morgan:  Do you feel like you’ve got faster hands with your two-hander?

Callie:  I do.

Morgan:  Interesting.

Callie:  From my ready position, I have two hands on my paddle, so it’s just a quick – switch my grip or break my wrist and hit it.

Morgan:  Okay, interesting. Because I know from tennis, I used to have a two-hander as well, and it was the left hand, the top hand that was the dominant kind of hand running the show. The right hand was a bit more along for the ride and I’d spend a lot of time hitting left-handed full hands to kind of keep that in place. Is that ever something you think about or are they just a united team? 

Callie:  No, I hit it more with my left hand, for sure. But right hand just gives it a little stability. But yeah, my left hand more comes over the top of the ball. Kind of muscle memory now, but for those just starting out, yeah, it’s the left hand that comes through.

Morgan:  Lovely! Well, I think our listeners have learned a lot today. Get that left hand going!

So how can people find you if people want to come and take a lesson or just pat you on the back, get an autograph, something like that. What’s the best way for people to get in touch?
Callie:  Probably my Facebook, Callie Joe Smith Pickleball page. Message me, probably the best way.

Morgan:  And you’re up in Orem, Utah. Where his Orem? I’m not sure if I’ve been there. 

Callie:  It’s about 45 minutes South of Salt Lake. 

Morgan:  Oh, okay. It’s not too far away.

Callie:  Yeah, not too far.

Morgan:  Oh, okay. It’s not too far away. Maybe I’ll come up and take a lesson.

Callie:  Or you can just come play. I can probably take a lesson from you, to be honest.

Morgan:  I’ll trade you your footwork for some kind of sneaky, deception thing that I try to pull off.

Callie:  Oh, I want to hear a little more about this one!

Morgan:  Well, Callie, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate you taking a moment out of your busy tournament and child-raising  schedule to talk to us. 

Callie:  Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. 

Morgan:  You’re very welcome. Hopefully, we’ll do it again soon. Oh, we’re playing a tournament coming up. We’ve got the Los Angeles open. 

Callie:  Yup!

Morgan:  Would you say it’s too soon to start matching outfits? I’m joking, don’t worry.

Callie:  If you want to match outfits, I’m not against it. 

Morgan:  No, no. I don’t think I’ve ever done it, but it’s weirdly happened like five or six times where it hasn’t been discussed, but I’ve ended up wearing the exact same color top as my mixed partner. 

Callie:  (laughs…) 

Morgan:  I know. It’s so strange. 

Callie:  Excited to play with you, though.

Morgan:  Oh, good to meet you too. 

Alright, Callie. Take care of yourself. Stay safe, and we’ll see you on the Pickleball court soon. 

Callie:  Thank you. I’ll see you soon! Thanks so much. 

Morgan:  Alright, take care. 

Callie:  You too!

Morgan:  Cheers!

Sponsor: Selkirk Sport

Eight Months of the Year [18:02]

Morgan:  Come down to the desert. I hear it’s nice, like, eight months of the year!