Episode 14 | He Deserves to Wear Those Shorts

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Today’s Guest: Internationally Recognized Good Guy, Glen Peterson [00:23-04:33]

Morgan:     My guest today is an internationally recognized good guy. Glen Peterson is one of the few players who I believe has mastered the art of partnering—an important topic I think we can all agree. So we’ll get into that.

He’s also an engineer, giving birth to the famous Selkirk Omni paddle some years ago. We’re gonna discuss what he’s working on during COVID, what it will take to keep developing the game, and some great tips for beginners and pro players alike. The man has won more medals than I’ve had hot dinners. So please welcome, Glen Peterson.

Glen! How’re you doing, mate?

Glen:          I’m wonderful, thank you.

Morgan:    Oh, happy to hear it! So tell me, what’s been going on? It’s been a while obviously since not much pickleball is going on, it’s hard to keep up with the Selkirk friends. What’s new in your world?

Glen:         You know, we’ve been playing ever since the weather got nice. The gym was closed once the COVID-19 hit, so we were not able to play indoors. But ever since the weather started getting nicer, we started jumping fences…

Morgan:   Of course…

Glen:        …at parks in this area and started playing. So we’re back out playing three times a week. I live on Six Acres with a big garden so COVID-19 is kind of a non-event for me personally. But yeah, we’ve been playing, it’s been wonderful! The weather’s great so there’s been a lot of new courts built in this area, a lot of tennis courts have been striped so the players just gotten better and better. Nick Williams has been playing with us, and there’s some really really great younger players emerging in this area. What about you?

Morgan:    Oh, good. Yeah, so; Riverside County, they opened sports like tennis, pickleball, and golf, they reopened them pretty quickly. I think we were only down for about a month, maybe five weeks or so. And then they allowed those particular sports to reopen under some provisos, obviously; but yeah, so it hasn’t been too bad in that sense. It’s just the heat right now, you know, it’s 110-120. It’s a little warm, so yeah, I’ll get some play in but it’s typically early morning and all of the lessons that I would typically lean on to keep me in check unfortunately, tend to leave, head back up to Seattle, head back up to Canada. But, we’ll make and do. We’ll survive somehow.

Glen:        Oh, I have fond memories of when you used to come up here at least two, if not three summers. One summer was with Kaiwan, but I have fond memories of those summer days, playing pickleball locally at the Senior Center at Redmond.

Morgan:    Yeah, yeah! Those were the days. You were one of the first players I ever played with. You and Mark Friedenberg, Don Pascal, Chris Miller, Bryan, Tonya, seems like only 6 years ago. And that’s exactly what it was.

Glen:          It wasn’t six years ago.

Morgan:    Yeah, yes, summer of 2014 was when I first got the bug. And Pickleball Central; it was all because of Pickleball Central, actually I called them and I had no idea what they were, but it might have been during the days of the Yellow Pages, probably not, but yeah, someone put me in touch with them so I called them up and they gave me Yoda and Don Pascal’s number and I just kind of went from there and met you at the Senior Center. Bob’s your uncle.

Glen:        That’s right. That’s right.    In some ways, some of those were the best years because I was learning so much. You know, in age, I hadn’t hit that intersection where I was still getting better, age wasn’t deteriorating. Now I’m fighting that, you know. And the cost of my skills getting better, my body deteriorating a little bit. But we’re playing great! I’m having a ball right now with pickleball. So…

Morgan:    Great! Well, then you’re winning! You’re on top of it.

Glen:         Yeah, feels good! Sometimes it’s hard to bring that game to a tournament, and so I’m having so much fun locally that it doesn’t really matter; it’s just, it’s great exercise, I’m playing well, it’s fun, you hit good shots, and great camaraderie. So.

Great Tips for Beginners and Pro Players [04:34-07:49]

Morgan:    Yeah, yeah. You’re all always a nice bunch up there. So tell me, what do you think kind of stands in the way, what kinds of things stop people from being able to take the level they bring to the table in a recreation game and then transfer it into that same kind of level in a tournament?

Glen:         You know, that’s a great question.

Morgan:    Well, that’s what we do here, we ask questions! Good questions, ideally.

Glen:         Yeah, maybe a couple of things. So the first thing is I think a lot of people pick up a paddle and a lot of people finish a point. So, you’re hitting the ball hard and aggressively. And they haven’t figured out that pickleball is a calm, rhythmic, sort of sport, it’s more of a “classical music” sport than “rock-n’-roll”, well at least that’s the way I think of it. So they’re trying to hit winners, and players who are cagey and have played for a while are able to just continue to get balls back until they hit a ball in the net or hit a ball wall. So probably the first thing is developing some consistency so that the floor of your game is raised a little bit. That’s one of the things when I think about beginners.

The other thing that beginners don’t like to do is they don’t like to volley. They like to take a ball after it bounces, and the ball only bounces about 40-50% of the maximum height that it reaches in the air and so, they’re always taking a ball at a lower point and backing up, and I encourage new players: love to volley, love to take a ball in the air. It’s a higher ball, you have a much better chance to putting your opponents off balance by taking a ball near. So move forward even if it doesn’t feel like it’s the safe thing to do.

And the other thing, that people take a paddle like a tennis, right, and there’s a lot of wrist action, and a whole lot of motion, and arm motion and I encourage people: compact stroke. The ball is smooth, the paddle is smooth, it’s hard to throw a spin. You’re probably the best at it, but it’s hard to put a lot of spin and grab a ball. The ball doesn’t want to be grabbed. The paddle doesn’t want to grab it so a flatter, more compact stroke with less wrist is a better stroke.

Morgan:    It seems like I’ve been going about this game all wrong. I should probably come up and take a lesson. I do love a good amount of wrist and a fair amount of flair, well, I’ll got to rethink this, go back to the drawing board, keep it simple.

Glen:          I’m not gonna teach you anything. That’s for sure. I think you are the best mind and the best commentator in pickleball. You’re a natural commentator. I’m laughing hysterically when you’re commentating pickleball. But you probably also have the best mind in pickleball. But I’ll tell you what, a ball at 80 degrees or 110 degrees, a Dura, anyway, is different than a ball at 40 degrees on a cold morning. And it’s harder to grab that ball at 40. So you show up at a tournament, it’s 58 degrees, and you know it’s harder to grab that thing and put that spin. So at least that’s what I find.

The Mystery of the Perfect Ball [07:50 -10:44]

Morgan:    Yeah, you’re right. I do wonder if they’re gonna be able to normalize, you know, the vast differences in ball speed that weather brings to the table. I know it’s gonna be tough. I’ve talked at length with different sort of “chemists” as possible, about the composition of the typical balls we use, and it seems like it is an incredibly difficult task to make a ball that’s both durable, stays round, goes as fast as we want, and isn’t affected by the weather. Now you’ve got an engineering background. And I remember when you first started tinkering around building the Omni, and we know as well that it’s a different looking paddle. But sure enough, within a year or less, it became an effective paddle and a popular paddle among the Selkirk lineup.

Can you talk to us a little bit about your experience with balls, and how that whole ecosystem works? Is it possible to build the perfect ball I guess? What do you think?

Glen:         So I feel like I spent a lifetime working with the Dura ball. We owned Pickleball Central. I’m an employee there and we owned the Dura ball until Onix bought it and I also spent a ton of time with the USAPA and the Jugs ball and the Onix balls. And plastics, I learned, are not easy. The chemistry involved in plastics are very complex. And so, when they change the bounce rules, it was extremely difficult to make the Jugs ball compliant and in fact, we never succeeded. So, it’s a mystery to me. I’m an engineer but the chemistry involved in the balls are a mystery to me.

And a number of manufacturers are now pursuing the ball that you described; the one that doesn’t change in weather, doesn’t break prematurely, bounces consistently, but preserves the game that the—I don’t know how to say it—that the old guard at the USAPA wants to remain a game with long rallies. So they don’t want us to be able to grab that ball and rip it and favor tennis players who bring in that skill set. So that’s the challenge of, you know, the Onix ball, the Pure ball, the Fuse, they were a lot easier to grab, and Dura has been difficult to grab and so, by nature that’s the way it’s going. And my understanding is that we go forward, there’s gonna be a coefficient of friction limit on paddles and that’s gonna relate to the ball, and so the coefficient is not just roughness; a glass might grab a Dura ball at a hundred degrees more than a piece of sandpaper. So, they want to govern it so that the game doesn’t get accelerated with shorter rallies with the ball that’s easier to grab.

I honestly don’t know the path forward, all I know is that it’s very complex whenever it involves plastics and the chemistry.

What It Will Take To Keep Developing The Game [10: 44-14:46]

Morgan:     So just, backing slightly. What do you feel like, you know, in the USAPA, the “old guard” so to speak, even though you know, they’re doing great things for the game. It isn’t a secret that they would like the traditional sense of pickleball to remain intact. Do you think at all that that could basically stop or slow the evolution of the game?

Glen:          Yeah. I do think that’s true. In one way, I’m almost sixty, I’m 59, and I love the fact that I can still compete with a 25-year-old, and I think it’s partly because of the ball, and the paddle, the limitations on balls and paddles, but I also think the game is not very entertaining to watch. It’s very entertaining to play, but 7, 8, 9 years ago, when I started playing pickleball, I watched the best players in the world, and I said, that’s very simple. I would much rather watch Federer and Nadal play tennis than to watch the best pickleball players in terms of entertainment value.

So if entertainment value is one of the things we’re pursuing, then allowing the equipment, both paddles and balls to evolve, to help it become a more aggressive game, may be wise, but it will make it so that I cannot compete with a younger player.

Morgan:     Well, I mean perhaps not a younger professional player, but I think they’ll always, because of the kitchen, and there’s a diminishing return, in terms of, you know, being able to hit a ball that much harder than it’s currently being hit, and still be able to keep it in the court. There’s only so much top spin you can produce and still have it go not too high above the net and know that it’s gonna dip down into the court with that spin. You know, I just wonder if the game may be shooting itself in the foot if we don’t allow the progression of you know, ball and paddle technology to make it more exciting. Because regardless of what the limitations on balls and paddles are, you’re never gonna stop the human element in sport science helping people create more power and more spin in the same way, that it’s you know, that it’s done with every other sport since the beginning of time.

Right now, when I look at some of the speed coming off Ben and Dekel and few other players, Steve Deakin, yeah, the kind of power they’re putting on, just your average set of drive, it’s enough to scare small children. And it’s not like the paddle magically overnight became rifles. It’s been a slow progression, but they figured out how to incorporate enough of their tennis technique, but it’s not like they’re hitting textbook tennis forehands; they’re just not and I always wonder what pickleball techniques are gonna look like in a couple hundred years. Cause I don’t think it’s just gonna be trickled-down tennis strokes. At least I hope not.

Glen:          I would say that you, you set the bar for serving strokes, you know, at third shot drive five years ago. You really set the bar for it cause I remember trying to defend some of your serves here in Redmond. And you would rip them so hard. But it was very dependent on the temperature that when the ball was soft and so I believe that allowing the equipment to evolve to make for more entertaining pickleball, reduced the barrier to entry even more. It’s a game that has a very low barrier to entry a beginner to pickleball could paddle and enjoy the game right from the start unlike tennis where it seems like the threshold is higher, but the more we let equipment and balls evolve, the lower the barrier to entry gets. And I think that’s a good thing.

Morgan:     Yeah, for sure, a hundred percent. We still need to grow from the ground up, grassroots, you know, get that base of players ideally starting to become younger and younger, and then see how it’s possible to kind of have a cake and eat it to let the game progress at the rate that it can while still allowing, you know, the vast, vast majority of players to enjoy it for the reasons why we do so much, how inclusive it is. That’s the secret to its popularity.

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Sponsor:     CoachME Pickleball

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How COVID Has Affected Glen [16:11-20:51]

Morgan:     So tell me, you know obviously COVID has affected everything. What kind of habits have you been working on either personally, professionally; anything going on? What’s tinkering out there for you?

Glen:         There’s a few things that I’ve been thinking about when I play; and I’ve had a little more time to drill. Normally I only play games. We show up, we drill or warm up for 5 minutes or even one minute and then we start playing games. And professionals don’t do that. They drill most of the time when they show up for a game. So there’s a few things.

One is that as I’ve mentioned before, I’m trying to think of pickleball more as a dance than just a short burst of energy. And so, moving, gliding over the court, saving my energy, being more relaxed and more common, then at the net, my tendency is that somebody hits the ball at my chest, I tend to rise up. Some players like to arm pass. Kelly likes to leap in the air! So the feet are coming off the ground and people are often rising up. So if I stay low and stay calm and see the ball off the paddle, so it’s one of the things I’m working on, is to be more stable, keep my feet planted, remain calm. A ball fired at you 14 feet away, there is a certain reaction that is unavoidable. So overcoming that instinct to react and stay calm and stable. Well, you do that as well as anyone.

Another thing I’m working on is, in tennis, we used to talk about back bounce swing; very simple concept. I see the ball come off the racket, I know it’s gonna be a forehand or a backhand; immediately turn my body. Sometimes the pickleball doesn’t come off the ground in a consistent way so if my paddle’s already back, I’m not trying to rush a paddle through a ball that comes off the ground differently. So I’m turning right away so that my paddle is back before the ball bounces.

And then the other thing is I’ve been using a little device to attach my elbow to my belt and try keep my elbow tucked in and keep my wrist locked open. I didn’t learn tennis to the level of you or many others. I was just a high school tennis player and I notice with Nick and you and others, that there’s not a lot of wrist action going on in the stroke, you keep that wrist locked open until the very end, and so I’ve even got a little device to hold that wrist open, keep my compact a little bit more like a ping-pong stroke, keep it more so it’s my legs that are generating the power, and there’s very little variability in my arm and in my wrist so I would try to encourage players to try to use your body to strike the ball take some of the variability out of the stroke.

And then the last thing I’m always working on is to keep my head down through a stroke. Because what happens is just I’m thinking about the ball coming back, right, especially if the ball is coming back hard and fast. So if I keep my head down through the stroke, see the blur of the ball and have a target in mind rather than looking up as I stroke, I tend to not hit the ball and then that is much.

Morgan:     It all sounds very interesting. I do love the thought of having a more stable wrist for the purpose of consistency and I think anyone listening who is just starting to pick up a paddle and getting going, you are cutting out the sort of, variables, that wrist, fingers, and to a certain extent, elbow as well, if you can keep it simple stupid, so to speak. When I think about your stroke, I have an image in mind of your forehand drive, you do a good job of using the bigger muscles, and the idea that the big muscles don’t break down, and keeping that head steady, you’re much more likely to have some fatigue in your wrist or your fingers, depending on how hard you grip the paddle at the end of the day if you’re utilizing those small tendons, ligaments, muscle groups, as opposed to the bigger ones as you mentioned, legs, core, to get your power.

Yeah, that’s good food for thought! Gah, people are learning a lot today!

Glen:         Yeah, I’m okay with it being an underhand rather than a side-arm stroke. I’m nearly 60 years old and bending over for three hours is a tiring thought. So I don’t mind hitting a ball the way I would toss a softball, pitch a softball, sort of an underhanded stroke works fine for me and fine for a lot of us older players.

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Morgan Evans Lightly Filtered Episode [20:53 – 25:45]

Morgan:     It’s time for another episode of Morgan Evans Lightly Filtered. Today is all about giving advice. One of the things I love about this game is how quickly people can pick it up and start enjoying it. Every day I meet new players, wide-eyed optimists that have their whole pickleball lives ahead of them. Three months later they’ve gone from a 3-0 to a  3-5 and suddenly they feel an uncontrollable urge to bestow their newfound wisdom to anyone lucky enough to share the court with them. You ever seen this happen?

Once in a while, these players will ask me a question regarding coaching. How do I know if I should give them advice? To which I typically respond, when the check clears.

If I could advice all the weekend-warriors-turn-0-0 coach one thing, it would be this: be careful. Be very, very careful of giving new players advice. As the twig is bent, so grows the tree. Think of new players as children. A blank slate that you can easily mold into something; anything. Pause for a moment. Is your advice going to send them down the right or wrong path? So, if you’re someone who feels the need to coach other people on the court, here’s a couple of questions you should ask yourself before dishing out your advice.

Firstly, has anyone asked for your advice? If not, that may be your first clue to just encourage but not advice. One of my favorite filmmakers, Baz Luhrmann once lyriced, that advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts, and recycling it for more than its worth. That’s a little glum, obviously. But a hell of a quote.

The next question you might want to ask yourself is how well do you know this person? The right advice given by the wrong person can easily fall on deaf ears. And if you’ve just made seven unforced errors, then don’t be surprised they’re not too interested in what you have to say.

Moving on, is it the right time to give advice? There is a time and a place for everything. Usually college. Hehe, nah. Technical, stroke-production advice should be certainly left for the practice court and ideally handed over to a qualified coach. Tactical advice can be helpful mid-game. However, exercise caution and keep it to the basics, like, “keep it to Player A” or “ let’s try to dink the third ball.” Paralysis through analysis is very real so be careful not to overload someone with information. Do you know how best they learn? Men are usually very visual learners while women can be more auditory. You’d be surprised how many people do indeed know how best they learn. Ask them. Remember that communication is a two-way street: the message you are saying and the message the person receives can often two very different things. Adapt your teaching style to their learning tendencies for better chance of impacting their game.

Have you earned their trust? The first thing you need to do to help implement any change in a player is this: get them on board with the change. If they don’t believe in the change, no amount of rhetoric will drill the concept home. A huge part of this factor is how much they believe in you as a coach. And unfortunately, if you’re not a qualified coach, or have a truckload of gold medals, then don’t be too surprised that whatever change you might be suggesting, even if a fantastic coach says the exact same thing, if it comes from you, it again might fall on deaf ears.

Lastly and this is a tough one. Are you trying to help them because of your honest desire to be helpful? Is it to win the game you are currently playing? Are you a control freak? Or are you simply trying to reinforce your sense of superiority with the ego-boost that an advisory role gives you? Be brutally honest with yourself on this one. Because if your reason is the latter, people will know soon enough. If I’m honest with myself, I became a coach for at least three of those reasons.

So there’s my little rant for the day. I appreciate if you listened. If not, no worries, now I’m never gonna tell you that a 3-0 or 3-5 player can’t be a good coach. So much of good coaching is just good communication. However, there’s a time and a place and you may realize that you’re gonna make a whole lot of friends if you just leave that coaching hat on the rack.

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Morgan:     Okay let’s head back over to Glen to wrap up another game-changing interview.

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The Secret to Being an Internationally-recognized Nice Guy [25:53-33: 46]

Morgan:     So, we’ve talked a little bit about the kinds of things that make you a great player. I always say on any given match in a high-level tournament, you can’t always choose if you’re gonna be the best player on the court, but you can always choose to be the best partner. You’re someone who were always admired in terms of your partnership skills. Is there something you think about or what kind of mindset do you have, especially when it’s a new partnership? What gives you that edge in terms of being an internationally-recognized nice guy on the court, on and off, it seems; how do you kind of gel so easily and therefore get the best out of your partner?

Glen:           Thank you for asking. I consider myself a mediocre athlete and so attracting good partners has been probably the most important thing I’ve done in terms of gold medals.

Morgan:     Well you’ve won singles as well, let’s be honest.

Glen:           Yeah, yeah. And you’re very aware of the magic that happens between two players in a particular tournament on a particular day in a particular match. And if that magic isn’t happening, probably, you’re not winning. And there is a flow in pickleball, points generally get strung together. So you win 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 points in a row and that comes when two people are really in synched emotionally and synched in playing and for me that requires a flexibility, a calmness, so I can play well with players who are more emotional, and more fire and I’m a little more ice, a little more calm. When you have two type-A players, that doesn’t work; also when you have two very placid players, sometimes the fire doesn’t come out. So being able to calm a player, making sure that everything is always good between the two of you, that’s sort of all good, it’s all good, I don’t care, I know we’re both putting everything we can, can turn a quarter soon, so if you lose 3, 4, 5 points in a row, not being patronizing but also you know, sometimes not communicating, but sometimes a little communication can be helpful. And then being flexible. I think, Morgan, playing with you, I partnered with you on a tournament, I knew you remember that.

Morgan:     It was one of the first ones I have ever played.

Glen:           Yeah, yeah and I remember at one point saying, I think we’re playing Wes and Bryan it might have been at Metal Match, and I said, “Morgan we’re not gonna win this match if you’re not on the left side and if you’re not taking over this game. Cause I’m not gonna beat these guys.” And you kind of looked at me and I said, and I think I might have even said “You’re gonna take the third shot on these particular points because I’m not gonna take my third shots in now”.  And so, recognizing the strength of your partner and being willing to let that strength, you know, rather than just asserting myself and saying I get half the shots no matter what.

I did that with Nick Williams once. We won that tournament in Yacaaba and Nick just took over. And I was able to hold my ground barely.

Morgan:     Yeah, I played against you. You played amazing! Jeez!

Glen:           Yeah, yeah, okay, that’s right! And I really didn’t play that well, but Nick played out of his mind. And so, recognizing, and you know I’ve been Scott Moore’s partner. Scott and I used to battle in singles and he called me up after nationals one year, and he said, how about we tried doubles together? And he said, I don’t know if I’m any good or not. And we won nationals consecutively and for consecutive years, two or three years in a row after that. I just counted the fact that Scott knew I was gonna be a battler, he knew. So, he was much better than I was in doubles. So, I’ve had really, really amazing partners. I’ve partnered with Wes Gabrielsen, one of the worst tournaments I’ve ever played, he treated me like I was just wonderful. Enrique did the same, I played terrible. I played with you, I played with Nick, I’ve had the greatest partners and sometimes the memories I have of tournaments, you know, memories of Larry Moon and King Croquard, Tony Tollenaar, Scott Clayson, Steve Dawson, Brian Staub, Billy Jacobson, Jay, and Travis, all these guys I’ve partnered with, I have some really fond memories of the camaraderie. You know, Brian Staub’s blue eyes, steely eyes when we  played the tournament and Larry Moon, the smiles between us in a match, I have fond memories. You know they say sports develops character, but I would say it reveals character. And the character of your partner is so fun to see it come out in competitive situations.

Morgan:      Yeah, you’re very rarely know what exactly kind of animal you gonna be standing next to until you’ve really gotten into the trenches with them. And you’re exactly right in terms of if two players aren’t in-sync, whether it’s one of their faults or both of their faults or just the fact that the relationship isn’t working, it can so often be, it’s no one’s fault. You know just because the relationship fails, doesn’t mean a person does, and in way partnership is served, you know, it’s a micro relationship. And avoiding playing the blame-game I think is something that I see in a handful of high-level players and it allows them to continually attract other great players and they’ll do well together because everyone knows that if I partner with Glen Peterson, for example, if we have a bad day in the office, we’re still gonna be mates. We’ll still ever be. Life goes on. And we’ll probably still have another gold and that’s so much insurance when you have that feeling, you know, going into a match that I think people can play their games a whole lot more easily than if you’re nervous about disappointing your partner or nervous about, you know, what kind of reaction they might have if you don’t play well.

Interesting stuff!

Glen:           Yeah, when I watch you and Tyson partner, what I come away with is, they really look like they were enjoying themselves on the court. It’s just a fact that when you were really enjoying your self, which was all the time, you played fabulous. And you were able to shrug off the bad moments and move on to the next. I see that in professional tennis where even when a player, you know, a partner makes a wrong shot or they still tap paddles, they still have a consultation and it’s all good and the relationship transcends the moment.

Morgan:      Yeah, I know, it really is. And I think that it’s one of those x-factors that who knows if you can really learn it or if you’re just kind of born with it, being able to basically be friends and get along well with a lot of different people and knowing that in the heat of battle, emotions are gonna rise. And if you’re lucky, they’re good emotions and together, the level of support, excitement, camaraderie, and willingness to go that extra mile for each other. There were many, many times where Tyson and I, I often looked at him as my legs were shot, cramping here, cramping there, and he would often, I’d have to say, “I’m gonna need you to take over these next four or five matches, is that cool?” And he would often say, “No, I’m probably gonna need you as well”, and vice versa. But usually his legs are fresh than mine; my he’s got good legs, it’s depressing.

Glen:           He does. He does.

Morgan:     He deserves to wear those shorts, he really does. I would wear those shorts if I could get away with it.

Glen:           Yeah, I agree.

Closing Conversations [33: 46]

Morgan:      Well, Glen, this has been an absolute privilege! I’m sorry we didn’t do it sooner. We’ll definitely schedule you back on if you’ll have us.

Glen:           I’d love that Morgan. Thank you for asking, you do this sport a great service. It’s a privilege to talk with you.

Morgan:     Oh, you’re very sweet. We’ll put in a good word with Selkirk again and we’ll get you back on soon.

Glen:           Yeah, thank you.

Morgan:     Alright, mate. You take care of yourself. Say hi to Paula for me. Next time we’re gonna talk little bit about your mixed doubles with Paula cause that’s always intrigued me. But for another time that’ll be. Give us something to really pow-wow, then.

Glen:           I’d love that! Alright.

Morgan:      Brilliant! Alright Glen, well you take care of yourself, stay safe, and we will see you soon.

Glen:           Thanks, Morgan.

Morgan:      Alright, take care.

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Sponsor:     Selkirk Sport