011 | As Snazzy as Possible – The VANGUARD Edition Transcript

Morgan:  Today’s episode serves to shed some light on the upcoming release of Selkirk’s latest engineering masterpiece. Welcome to the VANGUARD Special.

I know what you’re thinking and I thought the same. The AMPED line of paddles was a game-changer, how are they going top that?

Well, it’s taken a couple of years of research and development. I know personally started testing prototypes almost a year ago, so I think I’m more excited than anyone. The new line of paddles promises unprecedented levels of speed and consistency with the star of the show being Quad Carbon Technology. So while we’re talking about the nuts and bolts of that with a man named Ron, Selkirk’s Chief Engineer. I think anyone named Ron just demands respect, kind of like Bruce. You just can’t help but trust them especially if they’re well mustached.

I’ll also get some feedback from some of the games top players including Cammy MacGregor and the Newman Dream Team, Lindsey and Riley. It just wouldn’t be the same with a little Pickleball trivia, so we’ll have another crack at that.

And to round things up, I’ll get an independent review from industry pundit, Brandon Swanson. Fingers crossed that goes well, huh?

It’s going to be a good time so hold on to your hats. It’s time to see if the VANGUARD delivers.

 

The Chief [1:46]

Morgan:  Okay, let’s get this VANGUARD party started by talking to Mr. Ron Rau, Selkirk’s Chief Engineer. How are you doing mate?

Ron:  Pretty good, yeah, doing good!

Morgan:  You’re surviving?

Ron:  Surviving, yeah! Kind of a culmination of all your podcasts, you’ve talked about what people are doing. We’re pretty much covering that gamut and then some. But it’s been I would say maybe a little lax up in here, so we’re winging out, still playing some Pickleball, have been for a while, so it’s good.

Morgan:  Lovely, lovely. And what paddle are you using at the moment?

Ron:  It’s a prototype. Usually, I’m always using a prototype; different shape, different design, playing with different face sheets, cores. It’s kind of always something different which sometimes is a disadvantage trying to get used to a paddle but I think that’s the only way you can really get a feel for a lot of the different materials and try to make something better.

Morgan:  Yeah, I would be concerned if you were the engineer and you didn’t actually play, so I’m glad you’re out there.

Ron:  Yeah, I know. It’s funny because I grew up in sort of a cradle of Pickleball in the South Puget Sound area, Seattle area. And I used to play, I used to do tournaments in buddy’s driveway when I was in middle school.

Morgan:  Wow!

Ron:  And so yeah, we played. We loved it. we had so much fun. It was definitely one of our favorite sports. And we got out of that and moved away. And 20 some odd years later, I’m playing Pickleball again and designing paddles.

Morgan:  So it’s gone full circle.

Ron:  Quite amazing, yeah! I don’t know – I guess it was meant to be.

Morgan:  It was! Jeez. Kismat!

Ron:  Yeah.

Morgan:  So tell me, these new VANGUARDs, what are you reckon? Game changers?

Ron:  I believe they are. And the Hybrid paddle, the sort of control power aspect, we really I think enhanced that for most of the players out there. You’re sort of 3-5 and under, 4-0 and under, I think that paddle is really something that people are going to put in their hand and it just feels like an extension of your hand which is really what we’re always trying to achieve. I think the Quad Carbon face sheets giving you a better dwell time with the ball. The control is just off the charts.

Morgan:  Yeah, that’s the first thing I noticed when I used the Hybrid. It does feel like the ball is staying on there longer. Now is that actually happening? Is that just a sound? You know how sound plays a huge role in what a person feels from a product like a Pickleball paddle?

Ron:  True.

Morgan:  Is it an illusion? Are our ears playing tricks on us or is it actually spending more time on the surface of the paddle?

Ron:  It is spending more time on the surface, yeah. There’s definitely a longer dwell time with that material. Sometimes, the audible sound you get can be deceiving but a lot of times, people talk about pop and power and all these attributes that are very qualitative that you’re trying to describe about these paddles. Like food and a lot of things in life, everybody has a different take and a different taste. I think the Hybrid with the control really appeals to 99% of the players out there. And I think for me and the way I play, control is everything. I can try to slam the ball but without control, you’ve got nothing really.

Morgan:  Yeah, certainly, for sure. So just backing up, dwell time? Would seem like that is something that depending on what you’re trying to do with the ball can influence every aspect of what you’re doing whether it be if you’re trying to spin the ball more, the ball staying on the paddle longer is going to allow you to create more spin much like a tennis racket that is strung in a very low tension has. The ball has a greater trampoline effect and allows you to spend more time creating that spin. But it’s the same for power? Is it also to do with the flexibility of the paddler or has it all to do with the face and the core relationship?

Ron:  I would say all of the above. You’re tennis analogy, I think really is good. I think you nailed with that. Because you have that stiffer face sheet layer, you can think about it as sort of flattening the ball. So when the ball is coming towards your paddle and you’re redirecting it or tapping it or whatever you’re going to do with that particular shot, that ball once it hits that paddle face is going to kind of stick to some extent. It’s really a fraction of a second but you’re able to kind of impart more spin, shape the ball and direct it really pinpoint accuracy. Is that what you got out of it, Morgan?

Morgan:  I felt like it was something that ticked all the boxes for me. I tried the Power version as well and I tried it for about a week and a half, two weeks. And then I went back to the Hybrid because I did want that slightly larger sweet spot. I tend to play a fairly high risk, high reward game. Half the time, I’m taking my eye off the ball to watch my opponent which means the timing of the shot is tricky, and I like the extra insurance that the added sweet size in the Hybrid gave to me.

What are the major things that impact how big a sweet spot? That’s a buzz word that gets used in all kinds of products. What is it in your mind that are the main determining factors?

Ron:  I think the sweet spot really is – there are some misnomers in the sweet spot but generally I think about it especially with the Hybrid, you’ve got this somewhat of a thicker core. And as you increase that thickness in the core, you’re getting some more absorption, you’re really spreading that sweet spot out. And when you pair that with the quad carbon, it sort of magnifies that feel and you get this area in the paddle. And depending on how you weight it or what silhouette you’re playing with, that area where you hit the ball and you can barely feel it. It just feels like butter.

Morgan:  Yeah, it does have a very consistent noise I found, that when it hits so many different parts of the paddle. And I do like to use various areas of the paddle. The sound that it gives off is very consistent and that lends to what you’re saying.

Ron:  And audibly, it’s quiet, it’s a much quieter paddle than generally most of the paddles I feel that are out there which I think a lot of people as you get a little older, advanced age like myself, noise is not a good thing.

Morgan:  (chuckles..) So the neighbors are going to like this paddle, is what you’re saying?

Ron:  The neighbors love it, yeah. I play in my driveway, I play a lot of skinny singles in my driveway with my brother and they come out, they cheer me on.

Morgan:  That’s awesome! Now tell me, I’ve always been curious. Is there two sweet spots in a Pickleball paddle? And when I say that, I’ll kind of explain what I mean. I’ve always noticed that if I’m sort of up at the net and I’m looking to block a volley, I get a whole lot more support, I guess, counterforce perhaps is the word, I’m not sure, when I hit it closer to the handle versus closer to the end of the paddle. But I don’t get the same kind of power at that kind of area of the paddle if I’m hitting a groundstroke for example. I feel like the extra leverage when I contact it a little closer to the end of the paddle it gives me more power which would mean that would be a sweet spot there. Obviously, I use quite a long paddle, it’s a 16 ½ inches or so.

Ron:  Are you still using the custom spade paddle?

Morgan: Exactly! It’s lovely.

Ron:  Beats a shovel.

Morgan:  Yeah, yeah it’s pronounced pizza peel but you know?

Ron:  Pizza peel, I like that. Popular in the southern hemisphere.

Morgan:  This is going to be known as the new Maxima.

Ron: I think so.

Morgan:  So we might have to bury the whole pizza peel thing. Maybe we can edit that out.

Ron:  I found that the Aussie’s love that Maxima. I give all my Aussie friends, I give them that custom paddle and they love it.

Morgan:  Nice! That’s the spirit.

Ron:  They’re waiting for the next iteration.

Morgan:  Look I’m excited. I’ve been bugging Rob…

Ron:  Yeah, I think in terms of the nodes on the paddle, there’s a lot going on; the physics of how you’re hitting the ball, how tight your grip is, are you gripping up when you come to do some blocking? Are you lowering your hand on the handle when you’re driving groundstrokes? There are a lot of factors that will create nodes on the paddle that will give you that sort of softer feel.

Morgan:  Interesting. So when you say nodes, are you saying there are various kind of points around a paddle which are going to feel similar regardless of if they are within what would be broadly defined as a sweet spot?

Ron:  Yeah, I mean the shape of that paddle and if we’re talking about something like the pizza peel or the Epic and the Invikta, it’s going to have sort of this shape and different nodes on the paddle that are going to give you different attributes depending on the angle of the paddle, your grip on the paddle, and certain feel I think overall. These nodes are there, they’re not necessarily changing dramatically but all the core, the face sheets, especially the shape, that’s going to determine where these nodes are at.

Morgan:  Wow! Okay, I’m learning a lot today.

Ron:  We’re going to have to cut all that out. I mean this is some proprietary stuff, come on!

Morgan:  Very proprietary. That’s the benefit of these things. We’re not live and we can edit as much as they want. So now I’m looking at kind of the specs of these new paddles and I noticed that the X5 core is being used for the Hybrid. That was obviously – is it the same X5 core that was used for the AMPED? Is this a “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” situation?

Ron: Exactly, yeah. It’s a solid core. We’ve been using it for years. Great core, great feel. There are up and coming cores that I think we’re going to use in the future but this particular core is great. I think it will always remain in some way, shape or form in a Selkirk paddle somewhat.

Morgan:  Nice! So in the Power version, it’s the X6. That’s a denser version of the same core?

Ron:  Similar core, the specific gravity is similar. It’s obviously thinner, 9 mm, 3/8s. So it goes back to the thin core, thick core sweet spot as you probably felt when you pizza peeled the thinner pro version. The power is off the charts but the soft, buttery feel and the nodes and the let’s say sweet spot we’ll call it as people might recognize is smaller overall. So it’s a give and take with everything. With physical properties of materials, you want to go stiffer, you want to go softer, you want to change something, you’re always giving up something to get something, right?

Morgan:  There is no “I can have my cake and eat it too”. There’s always going to be a compromise.

Ron:  Not yet, Morgan. But I think potentially with what we’re doing now, in the near future we may be able to defy Physics and create something that has everything.

Morgan:  Yeah, that would be great. So far for me, the Hybrid versus the Power, I did find that I think if I was to record my average ball speed using both of them, I would probably wager that the average ball speed I was getting out of the Hybrid might indeed be more than the Power largely because I wasn’t always hitting the perfect part of the paddle on the Power version. But it seemed like almost regardless where I was hitting on the Hybrid, the speed I was getting out of it was pretty much the same. Is that something that’s by design? Is that something where you just stumbled across it and realized, “Wow, this just feels great across the paddle”?

Ron:  Yeah, I mean the design or the thought that went into the Hybrid was every man’s and every woman’s paddle kind of the full spectrum of paddles. But when we were looking at how we could take sort of the AMPED platform and really enhance it, and going to the quad carbon we felt was really going to give us that extra power and also enhance that control. I think that’s really what we’ve achieved with this VANGUARD Hybrid paddle. And I think in terms of the Power versus the Hybrid when you get to that smaller sweet spot for really advanced players like yourself, hitting that and creating more power with that thinner core obviously not as forgiving on the Power paddle. But some players and this goes back to kind of the mechanics and I can give a really super soft, maybe a 1-inch core paddle to some of the players that I know and they can absolutely hammer the ball. They’ll just destroy it against the ground and vice-versa. So I think mechanics, obviously as you know, play a big part in creating power, creating a lot of things in shots with these paddles. But essentially, having yourself creating a similar speed with both paddles I think maybe you’re more comfortable and it’s more forgiving as you were referring to with the Hybrid.

Morgan:  Yeah, I felt like I had a more reliable feeling of just how much ball speed I was going to get out of the Hybrid whereas the Power one, I knew at the top end of the scale that was the Bugatti Veyron. But they’re tough to part, you know?

 

The Specs [15:44]

Morgan:  So according to the USAPA, there are no restrictions on the thickness of a paddle. Is the sweet spot 3/8s, 5/8s? In your opinion, where is the diminishing returns on thickness?

Ron:  Well, I’ve tried really thick cores and they’re pretty amazing in terms of sweet spot, forgiving, control but you’re losing pop, you’re losing some of the deflecting, power with certain different face materials on it. But I think it’s a question of how comfortable are you swinging something that’s that thick. Obviously, the weight, you can only have so much mass in these paddles. Some people can swing a really heavy paddle but generally getting into that zone of comfortability with the overall mass is more difficult with a thicker paddle. But, yeah I think there are some aspects of those thicker paddles that are pretty exciting.

Morgan:  Is it possible to measure swing weight in a Pickleball paddle?

Ron:  Yes, I think you could. I mean we’re looking at it and we’ve been looking at different sort of radar devices like they have in golf. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that? They can analyze swing and there are all sorts of things that you can analyze. I think we can probably calculate and analyze the swing weight of the paddle and a lot of other really cool attributes to help us really kind of drill down the details of how to make these paddles better.

Morgan:  Yeah, I mean for me that would be a huge advantage. And I think if I was to know that if my paddle comes at 8 ounces and I add .2 of an ounce in a particular area, that is now going to make the swing weight a certain degree and different kind of sporting goods use different methods of measuring. At golf, your average wedge. I think my wedge is a D3 and it sort of goes 3, 4, 5 and I think C. I would have to look it up again but they have a measuring system that lets people know what it’s going to be like at the end of the paddle.

Ron:  You know, the cool thing and this really goes back to Selkirk and what they’re kind of driving and the reason why I joined these guys, in my mind you want to kind of standardize the market similar to that; similar to tennis, similar to golf. Have a standard where you can really evaluate what’s the best paddle for Morgan Evans and what’s the best paddle for these other players that are out there based on the way the play like golf and you can sort of customize. I think my idea is to develop what I call the Barnes Standard and then every in the market uses it and that’s how people can go, “Okay, I know what this paddle does. I know all these attributes and what it gives you. And this is the kind of player I am, so this is what I need.” Does that make sense?

Morgan:  Yeah, and I think the Barnes Brothers would absolutely love if their name became like a Barnes Meter.

Ron:  Yeah, the Barnes Meter, the Barnes Standard, you know? They’d like that. I floated that idea, they smiled.

Morgan:  I can imagine. I am curious as well, the edge guard. Obviously, there’s a lot of overlooked parts of a paddle. We tend to sort of dwell, pun intended, on the faces or cores. But I’ve seen a lot of different edge guards, I’ve seen a lot of different edge guards that comes loose and create different sounds and whatnot. Some people like edge guards being looser, so it gives them a bit more reverberation, I guess.

Ron:  Yeah, vibration, yeah. We’re trying to eliminate that. And I think it’s back to the Hybrid which I think I find and a lot of people I play within my local community here, you see the people wearing the straps around their elbow area, getting Pickleball elbow, tennis elbow or whatever. I think the Hybrid, part of that design was to really give those folks something they could swing that’s really going to help them with that particular problem. I don’t know if you’ve experienced it but the vibration coming back when you say miss it or your grip is loose and things of that nature, really can help with that issue.

Morgan:  Certainly, or they can just go take a lesson and stop hitting their backhand that way but yeah!

Ron:  (chuckles…) Yeah, well that’s another way to resolve that issue too.

Morgan:  Yeah, that is a constant question, is how heavy should a paddle be for a particular person and that’s obviously different for everybody. My typical advice is you should use the heaviest paddle that you can safely wield.

Ron:  Yeah, the one that doesn’t make your arm fall off when you’re hitting those overheads.

Morgan:  Yeah, exactly.

Ron:  The more mass you’re going to have more control. As you know the paddle is going to do more of the work, right?

Morgan:  For sure. You can have less input and have a more reliable shot if it’s something made in a warehouse as opposed to made by your parents.

Ron:  Yeah, the edge guard is critical and we’re generally going for a tight, consolidated paddle that the edge guard is on there. We don’t want that reverberation, we’re trying to avoid that. Some people like it, most people don’t like that. But it’s a factor as our grip, the material, and the build-up of the paddle, the butt cap, end cap, all of those things go into play I think, for the overall feel of the paddle which is important.

Morgan:  So if one of those is missing, the other three can’t really make up for it.

Ron:  Yeah, in some extent. If one of those is starting to fail in some way, shape or form, you’re going to change the feel of the paddle. It’s really all about that feel; are you getting comfortable, the extension of your hand? You want that to be consistent all the time.

Morgan:  Yeah for sure. Is it possible for you to kind of explain – and if you can’t don’t worry – what the impact of MOI, moment of inertia, has on a Pickleball paddle?

Ron:  In layman’s terms, when the ball is striking the paddle, how are you transferring the kinetic energy from the paddle face to the ball.

Morgan:  Exactly! And what effect that has on – gear effect, I think it’s called. Low impact, high impact, how that affects the paddle angle? Is that something you’re at liberty to discuss?

Ron:  Probably not that particular question. That’s a good question, I’d looked at that before. And part of the design is thinking about how these different materials would change that. Really that concept and part of what I referred to before looking at different radar technologies to analyze those type of things, that’s really kind of drilling into the details of making a really amazing performance out of some of these paddles.

Morgan:  I mean I deliberately asked that question so that we have something to talk about next time.

Ron:  Oh next time, yeah! What is this? Like a 10-part series?

Morgan:  Oh definitely!

Ron:  When they told me we’re just going to cut certain parts out and we’re going to meld this into a multi-person podcast with some of these other famous people, I said, “Well, if I can’t get my own podcast with Morgan on a consistent basis, I’m out.”

Morgan:  That seems fair, mate. I love talking about the nitty-gritty.

Ron:  Oh, it’s great. I do too. You can really geek out on this stuff. But it’s really getting from this sort of let’s say cottage industry into really a performance really let’s delve into the details because that’s where it’s going, as you know. I mean people want that, they want to see that. If we’re going to push the boundaries in this industry, that’s the kind of activity we need to be doing.

Morgan:  Yeah, well that’s what they’ve always done and that’s what they’re continuing to do. I’m happy to be onboard and I’m sure you are as well.

Ron:  Absolutely! A lot of times, it doesn’t even feel like work and that’s kind of the beauty of it.

Morgan:  That’s good to hear, mate. Well, it’s been a pleasure to talk to you, bud. Let’s make sure we do it again soon.

Ron:  Yeah absolutely. Thanks, Morgan. Great talking to you again. All the best!

Morgan:  You too, mate. Take care of yourself. Cheers!

 

That’s it for Ron [23:48]

Morgan:  A lot of good stuff there coming from Ron. Great to  dive into the nuts and bolts. Let’s cut down on some of the syllables here and check in with one of my good friends, Cammy MacGregor.

 

Cammy’s Here! [24:02]

Cammy:  Hello? Can you hear me?

Morgan:  Yeah, I can hear you.

Cammy:  Are you there?

Morgan:  Yeah. Can you hear me?

Cammy:  I can hear you.

Morgan:  Well that’s good.

Cammy:  It helps when you turn the volume on. (laughs…)

Morgan:  (laughs…) That’s genius! Oh technology! Can’t live with it, can’t live without it.

Cammy:  Well I can probably live without it. So what’s happening?

Morgan:  Same old, same old. Just plugging away. I seem to spend more time in front of this microphone than on the court these days but other than that, it’s all good!

Cammy:  That’s good.

Morgan:  It could be, I don’t know. Depends on the listeners I suppose.

Cammy:  Uhumm.

Morgan:  Oh, I met a friend of yours the other day. Well, someone you used to tour with, Anna Maria Ruffels, I guess it was Fernandez back then?

Cammy:  Oh yeah, Anna Maria Fernandez, yeah.

Morgan:  Yeah, she’s getting into the game.

Cammy:  I know she is.

Morgan:  Yeah, went to [Smith] the other day and I have no idea who she was. I thought, “I’ve never seen this person. She seem like she knows what she’s doing and she’s going to excel.” Then someone told me she got to like top 10 or top something.

Cammy:  Oh yeah, there is Four Sisters and we all grew up together, and they all were amazing tennis players – still are. But yeah, Anna Maria, she was tough. If she gets into Pickleball, she is going to be good. Did you play with her?

Morgan:  Yeah, I played against her like two or three times. So I was like, “Alright, this woman knows something that I don’t know.”

Cammy:  (laughs…) That’s funny. Well maybe she’s been watching you that’s why, you know?

Morgan:  I don’t know about that. But she was saying her husband is an Aussie.

Cammy:  Yeah, Ray Ruffels.

Morgan:  Ray Ruffels, that names sounds familiar or famous or famously familiar, I don’t know.

Cammy:  Yeah, he’s just been in the tennis industry just coaching, playing. He’s a good, old Aussie.

Morgan:  Good, old Aussie. I’m sure he’s going to come down to the club and have a couple of beers with us next weekend or tomorrow.

Cammy:  Nice!

Morgan:  We got to get you to the desert, Cammy!

Cammy:  I’m actually coming out next week.

Morgan:  Oh nice!

Cammy:  Coming out for one night to play golf, so I don’t know if you want to play with us?

Morgan:  Yeah sign me up! Where are you going to play?

Cammy:  Shadow Ridge and then Desert Willow.

Morgan:  Oh nice! Yeah those are good courses. And there’s only three of you at the moment?

Cammy:  Three young ladies.

Morgan:  Alright!

Cammy:  But yeah, I need to come out also and play some P-Ball.

Morgan:  Yeah, I mean don’t feel like you have to but…

Cammy:  To get out of this yard project, I welcome it.

Morgan:  Good stuff. I’m going to guess technically it’s kind of your job-ish to play Pickleball and be all professional. Who knows? It’s hard to take it too seriously at the moment with not knowing when a tournament is going to start up again, right?

Cammy:  Exactly. Good thing is work is opening up.

Morgan:  Oh nice.

Cammy:  The cost is going to be starting their small stages. So it looks like we’re going back to work in a couple of weeks.

Morgan:  Well, the honeymoon’s over. Bad luck.

Cammy:  I know… Work, work, work.

Morgan:  I wonder if any of the clients are going to notice that you look like I don’t know, I was really enjoying the holiday. Maybe we could spread some rumors that the pandemic is coming back and you can all go home.

Cammy:  Yeah (laughs…) no, I’m looking forward to it, that I can get back on the court.

Morgan:  Good stuff. Alright, well that kind of brings us to the main topic. I’m guessing at some point Rob Barnes might listen to one of these and notice that we’re primarily talking about tea times and old friends. But we should probably get on to topic.

This new paddle, I hear you’ve had it in your hands for a while?

Cammy:  A while? Actually, I’ve only probably had it in my hands for a few weeks now.

Morgan:  Oh that’s a while. It’s all relative.

Cammy:  I guess so. Yeah, the VANGUARD, it was funny because Rob Barnes texted me and said that I’m sending you a paddle. And I said, “Oh, okay.” I didn’t know which one it was going to be and I had been talking to Rob about Selkirk was going to be making a thinner paddle. He said,” Yeah, we’re working on it.”

Anyways, when he said he’s sending me a paddle, I got the package and I opened it up, and I just got really, really excited about it because there was this black and red S2 VANGUARD paddle in a thin frame. I just was a little giddy about it. And so I guess my wish came through just the look of it and the feel of it, just without or with hitting a pickleball felt really, really good.

Morgan:  Without even hitting one!

Cammy:  Yeah, without even hitting one.

Morgan:  That’s incredible you can really get a sense for the consistency and the speed of the paddle without even touching a pickleball.

Cammy:  I know. It’s amazing.

Morgan:  Amazing!

Cammy:  My consistency was unbelievable when I held it.

Morgan:  Yeah, you didn’t miss a shot. I feel like maybe that should be the tag line: “If you can’t play, just trust us. It’s really good.”

Cammy:  Yes, exactly!

Morgan:  That will work for sure. Okay, but you’ve had a chance to hit with it now I’m sure?

Cammy:  Yeah, I’ve played with it a bunch since I’ve gotten it. And first of all, I love the grip of the paddle. It just feels really, really nice in my hands. I’m actually holding it right now.

Morgan:  Oh nice!

Cammy:  But playing-wise, with a quad carbon and the thinner frame, it just able to give you a lot more pop on the balls especially when you’re driving it. And just the consistency with it being thinner, I feel like I’m a lot more consistent with my third shot.

Morgan:  And you’re arguably the most consistent player on the planet. So how can we get any more consistent? The last time I saw you miss a ball I think it was during the Reagan administration.

Cammy:  (laughs…) Wow! I didn’t know I was that consistent.

Morgan:  That’s what people say about you.

Cammy:  Thank you, everyone! Appreciate that.

Morgan:  Oh it’s like six of us. I only asked six people, so…

Cammy:  Oh gee, you didn’t have to say that.

Morgan:  Well, no, it’s an important six though. So it’s good, trust me.

Cammy:  It’s better than five.

Morgan:  Right? Definitely, yeah.

Cammy:  But yeah, I mean just the VANGUARD – I don’t know how you feel, but just the VANGUARD technology, the consistency, and the maneuverability, just faster drives and more pop off the paddle for those surprise attacks.

Morgan:  Yeah, I feel when I tried the Power version for the first time, that when it hits that sweet spot, there’s nothing like it, the extra pop you get as long as it’s well-directed and you’re not in danger of hurting small children, it’s an incredible amount of extra power versus the previous generation of paddles. So it’s an impressive engineering feat, I would say. But more than that, how quickly it gets through the air I found the thin on, I didn’t realize they were going to go that thin because I always thought there’s a real sort of trade-off when you start going to that kind of level of thinness if thinness is a word – leanness. But yeah, it looks like they’ve been able to stiffen it to a point where you can really get through the air quickly and support a large enough sweet spot to make all that power still usable.

Cammy:  Totally agree, yeah, with a bigger sweet spot. Like you said just being a little thinner that paddle head swing that you can generate you get that pop on it and it’s just easy to maneuver.

Morgan:  Good stuff. So this is going to add a whole new dimension to your game. You’ve always been consistent and steady in generally all areas of the court. Do you feel like you’re going to branch out a little bit now and start taking a few risks?

Cammy:  I have to divulge my secrets?

Morgan:  Well, let’s face it, it’s just you and Jennifer. So you know? – and she’s on the other line, she’s listening so don’t worry about it.

Cammy:  Okay! Yeah, I do – just playing with this paddle for the last few weeks, I feel really confident. Definite change in my game and definitely looking to pull the trigger a little bit more than I had in the past. So I’m ready for some tournaments to start up and see what happens.

Morgan:  Yeah, I guess that’s the only problem with this release. Without the tournaments or known tournaments anyway, you’re out there wanting to go out there and use it in competition but we’re all dressed up with nowhere to go.

Cammy:  Yeah, definitely.

Morgan:  But hopefully that will change soon and we can all have a good time on the practice courts.

Cammy:  So are you using the VANGUARD?

Morgan:  I’m actually using the Hybrid version. I tied them both and they both have real pros and cons. But I felt like for me, I needed a little bit of extra sweet spot size. The Maxima is obviously a thinner paddle; it’s a longer, thinner paddle. And for me, I wanted the added insurance of a bigger sweet spot. I did find with the hybrid compared to the AMPED line, it did have a substantially bigger sweet spot and I was prepared to give up just a little bit of extra power to have more comfort over dinks and a lot of the transitional block volleys. That’s the one where I need to be more solid and I’m not likely to be able to overpower most of the kinds of people that I’m playing against even if I did use the Power version from that part of the court. It’s still worthwhile playing a high percentage shot for me personally, I’m 142 lbs. wet and it’s not so easy to deal with the Ben Johns and the Matt Wrights from transitional area.

Cammy:  Sure.

Morgan:  So I wanted something that is going to be a bit more versatile. And I found that – I would say the average power for me because I do like to use the vast majority of the paddle face, I’m not one of those people that restricts myself just to the sweet spot. I like to really utilize a lot of it except for the handle, that’s not great. But I want the whole thing to work for me.

Cammy:  You know you got that whole paddle, you might as well use most of it.

Morgan:  I almost bought a Selkirk paddle the other day, and I had to spot myself. You know how when shops start reopening, like, “Oh my god, I can go and buy stuff again.” It was weird. Consumerism, I was never one of those kinds of people that just like buying all kinds of stuff. But as soon as I was able to do it again or as soon as it was taken away from me and now reopened in Riverside County where we’re pretty open now, I just wanted to go out and buy stuff, and one of them was a Selkirk paddle. But I stopped myself short and just called Rob instead.

Cammy:  Well, I understand that ambition to want to start spending and going crazy. Things are changing so it’s a good time.

Morgan:  Good times. That reminds me, did you get your hair cut? I remembered we spoke on the phone for one of the recent podcasts, and the main issue was hairstyling. Have you manage to spend some money on that?

Cammy:  Guess what, Morgan?

Morgan:  Tell me…

Cammy:  As of yesterday.

Morgan:  Oh! You got it cut yesterday.

Cammy:  I did.

Morgan:  Congratulations!

Cammy:  Thank you. It was a big weight lifted.

Morgan:  Literally, I imagined.

Cammy:  Literally, yes. I’m quite happy.

Morgan:  Brilliant.

Cammy:  Yeah, now when I shake my head, it’s not going everywhere. And for me to have long hair, if you guys know me, I’ve always have had somewhat short hair.

Morgan:  Yeah.

Cammy:  It was long for me. I almost had it in a ponytail.

Morgan:  No! No one would recognize you.

Cammy:  I know. Some people say keep it long. I said, “No! It’s too much work.”

Morgan:  Hey, tell me about it, sister. Jeez, you’re preaching to the choir here. I’ve almost got 1 millimeter going on that back of my head here.

Cammy:  Yeah, I remember you saying that. But shoot! I’m looking forward to getting some VANGUARD play with you and the rest of our little Selkirk clan.

Morgan:  Yeah, it’s a good bunch of people. It’s a good clan.

Cammy:  Jimmy out there, and Karen, it will be good times.

Morgan:  Beautiful! Well, I look forward to it, Cammy. Thank you so much for your feedback. Really hoping this launch is going to be a successful as it should be in these interesting times we live in. I’m sure that the new VANGUARD is going to prove wonders.

Cammy:  I think it’s going to definitely. I also want to say that Selkirk marketing team is to me, they do an amazing job about promoting the product. And the way they promoted the VANGUARD was pretty spectacular.

Morgan:  Yeah, I know, it’s great. I’m actually looking at the brochure right now. And honestly, I think every word is spelled correctly and that in itself is a real feat, so my hats is off to them.

Cammy:  Absolutely. I need them for our website.

Morgan:  Exactly! They still use the X5 honeycomb poly core. Now, I’m curious if BMW knows that their SUV is being used to propel pickleballs around the world, really.

Cammy:  Yeah, you wonder.

Morgan:  Might be some patent issues there. Who knows?

Cammy:  Shhh…

Morgan:  Alright! Well this has been fun.

Cammy:  It was fun, Morgan. Always good talking to you, mate!

Morgan:  Thank you, sweety. And I’ll see you on the course next Wednesday. It’s going to be good.

Cammy:  Yeah, so let me know.

Morgan:  Perfect. Beautiful!

Cammy:  Alright! See you, bud.

Morgan:  Speak to you soon. Cheers!

[background music plays…]

See you soon, Cammy! [38:01]

Morgan:  As always, great to catch up with Cammy and she what she had to say about the new VANGAURD. Let’s crossover now to Selkirk’s mix doubles dream team, the Newman’s, Lindsey and Riley.

 

The Dream Team [38:14]

Morgan:  So the Mark 6, you too, getting your own paddle. It’s exciting, isn’t it?

Lindsey:  Woohoo! We are excited. We’re pumped!

Riley:  Yeah, we’ve always kind of wanted our own signature paddle. And now that Selkirk listened to us a little bit, it’s super exciting and I’m so pumped.

Morgan:  Yeah, I mean more than listened. You guys are running the show, eez!

Lindsey:  I wish. That’s you, Morgan.

Morgan:  Basically the backbone to the organization.

Lindsey:  Oh yeah, okay.

Morgan:  Tell me, obviously you’ve played with the VANGUARD for at least a couple of weeks, a month or more? How long have you had it in your hands?

Lindsey:  I think we were at a family vacation a couple of weeks ago in Chelan. Rob and Mike and some other team members came out, and that’s when I think we got the official paddle. We were playing with kind of the all-black demo paddle before. So we were playing with the all-black demo one a little bit and then more recently within the last couple of weeks, we got the Mark 6 in our hands and that was probably two or three weeks ago.

Morgan:  Yeah. I tell you, I saw it first hand probably three or four weeks ago. A friend of mine came to the courts and he had it for testing and I tell you it looks like sex within an edge guard to be honest.

Riley:  Yeah, you got that right. I mean it’s like – because I have my Epic and then I have the Mark 6 right next to me, and you can tell the Epic was pretty thick around the core. And then this Mark 6 is obviously a lot thinner and the pop is pretty stinking fun to hit with, I’ll tell you that.

Lindsey:  Event the design, like the face of it, looks really, really cool and super fierce and intense. They did a really good job on the design. I think we’re going to go in one of these days and kind of put our own personal touches on it which for us will be super fun because of course, we’ve never done anything like that before.

Morgan:  For sure, yeah.

Lindsey:  So we’re just all around looking forward to it.

Morgan:  Some people are saying it’s almost as sexy as the Maxima.

Lindsey:  Oh, yeah. It comes in a close second place, that’s for sure.

Morgan:  A very close second, yeah.

Lindsey:  Yeah, it’s a nice paddle. I know Riley is playing with the Power version which he was talking about has that skinnier core. And then I have the Hybrid which has a little thicker core but I think what they both do really well is you’re still getting a lot of power and you’re still getting a ton of spin and control with the paddle. So I think that’s what we’re most excited for and combining all of that with the longer handle for the two-handed backhands is already taking our game to the next level and we haven’t even really played any serious tournaments with it yet.

Morgan:  It’s going to be very interesting to see how quickly it’s adopted by the masses. I think it’ll be one of the paddles, certainly for Selkirk, that really inspires people to try the two-handed backhand. You two have been the poster children for two-handed backhands for a while now. You both use it to an extent that hasn’t really been seen so much before. Have you noticed that leverage you’re able to use now with that longer handle and the different fulcrum point that it has? Has it made a significant difference for you?

Riley:  Even playing with the Epic, I was having to go a couple of fingers up on the paddle with that second hand. But now, with the Mark 6, I’m able to comfortably put two hands on the handle and still rip that two-handed backhand with ease. But also it’s kind of shaped like a tennis racket as well, so I think a lot of players coming over the Pickleball liked that tennis shape with the elongated paddle. So it really has a lot of benefits working for the Mark 6.

Lindsey:  We’re actually noticing too when we were hitting with it, I think when we were hitting with other paddles previously we felt like we were so defense-oriented; one, because that’s kind of our style. But two, because that fit our game with the paddle we were using at the time. But with these paddles, these Mark 6’s coming out, we’re able to now not even play like some really good defense but now taking our game to kind of a whole another dimension by being really now offense-oriented. And I know we’ve talked with you, Morgan, before about coming out of our shell a little bit, not being just that really good defensive team but also putting more pressure on our opponents and being more of like an attackable team. And with these paddles, they’re able to provide so much more power and give us the confidence to ball out a little bit more than maybe we had in the past.

Morgan:  Oh, I like it. We’re going to add those words to the marketing spiel, “Ball out” that’s it.

Lindsey:  “Ball out”, we like it.

Morgan:  That’s awesome! It’s going to be very exciting to see where it sort of takes your game and how well you can transition from the team that was obviously very much looked at as every team has going to have to work so hard to get a point off you in terms of how good your defense and counter-punching is. But if you now have something in your hands whereby you can really take the gloves off and you know you’ll have the power, speed to execute that first punch, how’s that really going to change the dynamic of the team? And unfortunately when I think about this long enough, so often your matches turn out into kind of a war of attrition and you grind people down with your unshakable will to be on the court for three hours if it needs to be. So if you two go out there and pull the triggers earlier and earlier, I think you’re going to find that yes, you’ll have success and you’ll learn over the next couple of years how well you can be the initiators of attacks. But it’s going to be straying from your original, what sort of got you to the dance, so it’s going to be super exciting for me as a coach to see how well you can adapt your game around this newfound ability to potentially put the ball away in one or two strikes as opposed to six or seven.

Lindsey:  We were noticing too when we were drilling even with each other or playing rec games after coaching or teaching or whatever it is, we’ve noticed it immediately that even though we don’t mind doing the 50, 80, 100-point shot rallies that we’re known to do, even though we don’t mind doing those, we’re now able – like you said, to end points quicker, to start the battle a little bit earlier than maybe we were used to before because we have this paddle that allows us to do that and to put away shots and not feel like we’re swinging for the fences to try to get the ball low and hard at opponents’ feet. We’re now swinging with maybe only 50% to 70% capacity and the balls are just zooming right passed our opponents, so it’s a really good feeling.

Riley:  Right. And even more times than not, we usually start the rally with like a third shot drop. Never really super comfortable of hitting through our opponents. But now with this extra pop with the paddle, more times than not, I’m actually driving my third shot and looking to be aggressive coming in and then finishing points a lot earlier with this added power. So it’s just going to change our games, it’s going to give our opponents different looks. We’re not just going to be defense or soft-oriented, we’re now going to be able to bring the fire to them.

Morgan:  Good stuff! It’s an exciting time to be alive, isn’t it?

Lindsey:  Wonderful!

Riley:  Hopefully when I see that packaging come with my Riley Newman picture on it, that’s going to bring a smile to my face.

Morgan:  Oh you think they’re actually going to put your face on the paddle? You know that….

Riley:  Hopefully it will be mine and then Lindsey’s in the background.

Morgan:  Oh I see…

Lindsey:  Oh come on, that hurts!

Morgan:  I feel like she’s still older, right?

Lindsey:  Still older, still wiser, still better looking, all of the above.

Morgan:  Yeah, ticking all the boxes there, Linds. Very good

Alright, so you talked about driving third balls, do you think it’s something that a lot of teams, when they do drive, they’re often just trying to get themselves an easier ball to then play another third shot drop off. Do you feel like you’ll go as far driving and looking to clean up with a follow-up attacking volley? Or are you more likely to still be in that transitional area wanting to play a better drop and a more aggressive drop perhaps?

Riley:  Yeah, I think it’s probably a combination of both. But I think more times than not, it will be pretty rare that either Lindsey or I would drive a third and then come in super aggressive with like a finishing volley. But now, I think it’s totally in the realm of possibilities where we’re hitting a hard third and then now we’re coming in and finishing points with that fifth. Or if we can’t go all the way to a finishing volley, then that fifth shot drop we’re going to be in the middle of the court or even closer to the kitchen and just play a softer shot. But just our range of playability is just going to be there with the Mark 6.

Morgan:  Nice! You’re almost selling me on the Mark 6. I’m really behind the Maxima.

Riley:  I see a Maxima in the picture, Morgan. But I think we’ll have to change it to a Mark 6 instead.

Morgan:  Mark 6-xima, maybe?

Riley:  Oh here we go!

Morgan:  Maybe let’s get one of those in there. Mine’s got a long handle too, it’s a game-changer.

Lindsey:  I like it.

Morgan:  And a rounded head, very much similar to the shape of my head. I think that’s where they got inspiration.

Lindsey:  Makes sense.

Riley:  They want to do your pretty face all over it.

Morgan:  I think that’s exactly what it is. Oh you two, you always say all the right words.

Riley:  All the time.

Morgan:  We’ll have to get you out into the desert here and we’ll do like a little weekend-long camp of deception because I want you two to be attacking but I want you to do it with a little bit of disguise as well. What do you think?

Lindsey:  I’d love that. Let us know. Send us an invite.

Morgan:  Beautiful! Well, thank you both so much for your time. This has been a lovely review. I’m already a big fan of the Mark 6 and the whole VANGUARD lineup but now even more so.

Lindsey:  Yes. I think the Mark 6 Power and Hybrid versions are coming out in September, so people will have to be by their computers and on the phone being ready to order those first few that come out.

Morgan:  It’s going to be one of those situations, I’m sure of it. The first 500 people that are quick enough with a mouse manage to get one of them. Unfortunately if you’re not…

Riley:  You’re going to be left behind. But also, Lindsey and I are definitely create some sexy signature colors that all the people will enjoy. We’re going to definitely make it our own and just make this look snazzy as possible.

Morgan:  Snazzy as possible! Lindsey, what’s your favorite color?

Lindsey:  Oh, I’m into like the ocean tones. Like the lite coral blue, kind of the teal blue. I’m liking the blue color.

Morgan:  Okay, good. It’s calming, there’s a calming effect. I can see that, very nice! Riley, what about you, mate?

Riley:  Well actually, I love the Regal Black Selkirk paddles when they made those for the last US Open. The black and gold, it was really fresh looking. So maybe a similar hybrid to that. But also I love wearing the color red, coming back to my college days. So maybe a little red, black, gold or you know… We’ll definitely work on it.

Lindsey:  As you could tell, we’re still thinking of our previous designs here. It’s still a work-in-progress.

Morgan:  Yeah, I think both of those look – they sound sharp. Tell me, what’s next on the table for you two? What’s the next tournament? Obviously, we’re all kind of hoping and waiting that something comes through completely. Do you think the one in Newport in August is going to happen?

Riley:  Yeah, I think there is one before that.

Morgan:  Oh wow!
Riley:  The Denver tournament, it’s called the Rocky Mountain Classic.

Morgan:  Oh yeah.

Riley:  It’s the first weekend of August that right now is on the books for. I haven’t got that email in the morning saying it’s been cancelled due to COVID so hopefully that email never arrives. So that’s first on the tournament docket for the Newman’s.

Morgan:  Perfect.

Lindsey:  And we’re actually suppose to be hosting and teaching some clinics there too, so hopefully we can teach some clinics. And Riley will be playing in the tournament, in men’s doubles, and then we’re going to end up going to Bend, Oregon later in the weekend to do a little exhibition style, round robin tournament.

Morgan:  Okay.

Lindsey:  It’s looking pretty busy for the Newman clan.

Morgan:  Yeah, so not too long and it’s back to business as usual.

Riley:  We need it. We’re missing it.

Lindsey:  Yeah, that’s how we like it.

Morgan:  The game is Pickleball is better for it, so we’re all hopeful that you two are back out there making us proud.

Lindsey:  Oh we want to be, trust us.

Riley:  Yup, we’re excited.

Morgan:  Good stuff. Alright guys, I’m going to love you and leave you. Look forward to speaking again soon. Thank you so much for your time, your words of wisdom about the new VANGUARD Mark 6.

Riley:  Thank you, Morgan.

Lindsey:  Alrighty! Thank you, thank you.

Morgan:  Alright guys, take it easy. Cheers!

 

That’s it for the Newman Clan [52:07]

Morgan:  As always, wonderful to talk to the Newman’s. They seem to be very excited about the new Mark 6 VANGUARD. We’re going to take a brief break here from reviews and first impressions for a little Pickleball Trivia.

 

Pickleball Trivia [52:26]

Morgan:  Welcome to Pickleball Trivia. I’ve got a couple of contestants on the line ready to do battle. Firstly, we’ve got Irene [Marv] from Canada. How are you doing, Irene?

Irene:  I’m doing well. Thank you, Morgan. How are you?

Morgan:  I’m doing very well. Enjoying having you on the show already.

Irene:  Thank you!

Morgan:  Your opponent today is none other than Mr. Keith Ramos from Puerto Rico. Keith, how are you doing, bud?

Keith:  I’m doing great. Thank you!

Morgan:  Excellent. I think, so far, you’re our first Puerto Rican contestant.

Keith:  Wonderful! Great!

Morgan:  I hope you do them proud.

Keith:  I hope so too.

Morgan:  Alright, Irene is going to be contestant number 1. She’s going to start off with the serve. I’m going to ask her a very simple question – I’m going to try to ask her a simple question. They’re going to get progressively more difficult, Irene, don’t you worry.

Irene:  Oh okay, I’m nervous. (laughs…)

Morgan:  If you get the question right then you will continue to serve and score points. If you get it wrong however or you choose to pass, then Keith will have a chance to answer that question, steal the point and take the serve.

Irene:  Okay.

Morgan:  Now, based on recent performances and I’m certainly not going to mention any contestant names, but we are implementing a new rule called the Double Fault. That means if you have the serve and you get the question wrong and your opponent also gets the question wrong, you cannot get another question wrong. So you’ll only get two chances there in which time your opponent will have the serve and a chance to score points. First player to get to five points will win the bragging rights and a priceless, although largely, most likely a $20 gift card from Selkirk.

Irene:  Awesome.

Morgan:  Are you ready to rumble?

Irene:  Oh I think so. I feel like I’m in a tournament now.

Morgan:  Yeah, I mean the pressure is going to get to you, isn’t it?

Irene:  Yeah, it is.

Morgan:  Hope you don’t buckle. Irene, you are starting off.

Irene:  Okay.

Morgan:  Here we go. Alex Hamner won the Women’s Open at the Nationals with which long-time partner?

Irene:  That would be Jennifer Lucore.

Morgan:  That would be Jennifer Lucore. Congratulations!

Irene:  Thank you!

Morgan:  You are off to the races. Now, Keith, you’re not nervous are you?

Keith:  No, not at all. I’m thinking I should have been watching more tournaments on Facebook.

Morgan:  Well that was 2014, so don’t worry. It was a while ago.

Keith:  Oh I didn’t know what Pickleball was back then.

Morgan:  I’m not quite sure what it is right now, so don’t worry. It’s all up in the air.

Alright, Irene, question number 2: True or False, there are no limits to the amount of referee timeouts during the game.

Irene:  True.

Morgan:  That is true. Look at you!

Irene:  Lucky guess.

Morgan:  You know some stuff. Good job!

Alright, on to question 3. What year was the USAPA formed? I know you’re up there in Canada but they got this little thing called USAPA. I like to call it “u-sa-pa” but no one is really biting on it.

Irene: 1982?

Morgan:  1982? That is not even close, no.

Irene:  Oh dear!

Morgan:  Unfortunately that is incorrect. That means Keith, you have a chance to steal the point.

Keith:  Oh dear!

Morgan:  What do you got for me?

Keith:  I’d say 2005.

Morgan:  2005? Look at you just enough time to Google it. Good job, bud! I’m impressed.

Keith:  Is it really?

Morgan:  Yes, it is.

Keith:  Oh no! (laughs…) That was a wild guess and I was worried. I was like he’s going to cuss my ambassadorship with this question.

Morgan:  No, no, you’re good. You’ve done great. Well done. You’re on the board right now. Irene is in the lead, 2 to 1, but you have the serve so you have a good chance to run with this. Are you ready for your next question?

Keith:  Okay.

Morgan:  “It’s Fun to Feel Good” is the slogan to which new health supplement company?

Keith:  Jigsaw Health.

Morgan:  Jigsaw Health, good man! Look at you leveling the scores.

Keith:  Alright!

Morgan:  Very nice! Okay, next question. To complete an eight-team double-elimination event, what is the minimum amount of matches that need to be completed? Is it A. 8, B. 14, or C. 17?

Now, bear in mind, this isn’t like on team needs to play this amount of matches. This is the whole event.

To complete  an eight-team double-elimination event, what is the minimum amount of matches that must be played? Is it A. 8, B. 14, or C. 17?

Keith:  It’s 14.

Morgan:  That is correct. Good job! Did you do math in your head?

Keith:  I’m trying to.

Morgan:  Well done! No one’s ever done math in their head in the last 20 years, that’s great! Okay, Keith, your next question: In 2018, Tyson McGuffin won the Men’s Pro Doubles at the Tournament of Champions with which player?

Keith:  Oh, I didn’t know what Pickleball was back then either. Let me see, Adam Stone?

Morgan:  That is incorrect, unfortunately. That means Irene, you have a chance.

Irene:  Okay, would it be Morgan Evans?

Morgan:  Come on!

Irene:  (laughs…)

Keith:  (laughs…)

Morgan:  Jeez, Irene! I mean that would have been pretty much a self-serving question if I had done that which is not beyond me. I might put that in there. But no, it wasn’t me.

Keith:  Don’t worry, Irene, I almost said that too.

Irene:  Back to you, Keith.

Morgan:  The answer was Mr. Matt Goeble.

Irene:  Oh, Matt Goeble.

Morgan:  Alright, so Keith keeps the serve. Jack Bandel is known in Pickleball for doing what?

Keith:  [unintelligible]

Morgan:  That is incorrect, unfortunately. So that means Irene, whether you get this one right or not you will get the serve because Keith has answered incorrect twice in a row as the service. So, Irene, this is – whether or not you get the point…

Irene:  Oh dear, that’s a lot of pressure. I have no clue. Starting a Pickleball tournament.

Morgan:  No, he is the man who does the paddle reviews. He’s the paddle review guy.

Irene:  Wow, these are really tough questions.

Morgan:  They’re really not supposed to be. It’s all relative really, isn’t it? Okay, but the good news is Irene, you managed to steal the serve anyway. This flightless bird N Pickle was born in Kansas City, Missouri?

Irene:  Oh my goodness, a flightless bird? Can you repeat the question?

Morgan:  Come on, Irene. Help me with this one. This flightless bird N Pickle was born in Kansas City, Missouri?

Irene:  What? Pickle?

Morgan:  Oh okay, I got bad news for you, Irene. If you don’t get this, I think there’s a very good chance Keith is going to get it.

Irene:  Okay, go for it, Keith.

Keith:  Chicken.

Morgan:  Chicken N Pickle, there we go.

Irene:  Oh, of course!

Morgan:  Of course!

Irene:  It’s that Dee’s Tournament?

Morgan:  I don’t know? He runs it maybe?

Irene:  Dee Davidson’s tournament.

Morgan:  It’s possible. But Chicken N Pickle. How many flightless birds are involved in Pickleball? God!

Irene:  I’ve never heard it called that. We’re from Canada.

Morgan:  Alright, so do your chickens fly up there? I don’t think so.

Irene:  No.

Morgan:  You got some very special chickens if they do, in which case I will rephrase the whole question.

Irene:  Okay.

Morgan:  Alright, so Keith, you have 4 points, mate. You’re going for the win right here.

Irene:  No pressure.

Morgan:  Which male pro player has the nickname “Bubba”

 Keith:  No, no…

Morgan:  Alright, no answer there. Irene, you got a chance to steal it.

Irene:  Oh my goodness. Bubba Davis?

Morgan:  Bubba Davis? That’s the answer you’re going with? Bubba Davis?

Irene:  Okay, no, no, no.

Morgan:  Remember, Bubba is a nickname.

Irene:  No, let’s just go with Alta – I don’t even know his last name, though.

Morgan:  You mean Altaf Merchant?

Irene:  Yes.

Morgan:  Okay, no it’s not that. It is Randel Zbinden.

Irene:  Oh, I know him.

Morgan:  Alright, that means Keith, you keep the serve. Okay, 3500 Thomason Drive is the street address for which major tournament venue?

Keith:  US Open.

Morgan:  Congratulations! That is correct! Keith, you have pulled it off just over the line!

Keith:  Thanks! I was trying to get embarrassed and I’m like, “I need to watch more Facebook Pickleball.”

Irene:  Oh, congratulations, Keith!

Morgan:  You do, for sure. But the important thing is you pulled out the win. Irene, you didn’t quite get there. It was a valiant effort.

Irene:  I started off well but…

Morgan:  You did. Yeah, I thought maybe you were pitching a shoutout there.

Irene:  I was hoping.

Morgan:  Oh well, as long as you had fun, Irene. You always have fun.

Irene:  Yeah, yeah. It was a lot of pressure though.

Morgan:  A lot of pressure, yeah for sure. This is basically your 15 minutes of fame.

Irene:  Thank you, thank you.

Morgan:  We’ll try and edit it to make you both sound much better. Don’t you worry.

Keith:  Thank you! I appreciate that.

Irene:  Sounds good. Thanks, Morgan.

Morgan:  No worries. Alright, guys. Take care of yourself. Make sure you dig that third ball and hopefully we’ll see you on the courts soon. Cheers!

 

And We Have a Winner [62:24]

Morgan:  Well, I think we can all agree that’s a fantastic voucher trivia. Well-played you two, well-played.

 

Review from The Paddle Geek [62:34]

Morgan:  Okay, moving on to our last guest. This for an independent review from the self-proclaimed paddle geek, Mr. Brandon Swanson. How are you doing mate?

Brandon:  Hey, Morgan. How are you?

Morgan:  Good, good. Not too bad. So you’ve been trying out the new Invikta VANGUARD Hybrid version, I believe? How’s it feeling in your hands these days?

Brandon:  Yeah, so first off, I think the Invikta shape is a classic, of course. It’s kind of a culmination of some of their other paddles. Well you’ve been using it as well, right? The Invikta shape for a while now?

Morgan:  Yeah, I started with it, I think it was just after the Atlanta tournament last year. So I had at least six or seven months or so using it in tournament play. But since then, we’ve been working on the next-generation Maxima, so I’m using that at the moment, and I’m loving it.

Brandon:  Oh really? Wow! That’s exciting news.

Morgan:  Yeah, it’s going to break the internet as soon as the first images are out there, almost certainly.

Brandon:  I mean it kind of already broke my brain just now when you said that. You should have prepared me.

Morgan:  I should have, I should have, that’s true.

Brandon:  Now the rest of this is just rubbish. (chuckles…) But no – Tyson’s been using that shape and now you’re going to probably say, “Well, he’s using something else.” But that Invikta shape has just been a huge success for Selkirk, correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think I am.

Morgan:  Yeah.

Brandon:  Starting there, I think that’s just a natural choice for the first introduction to the VANGUARD line. I’ll just mention that there’s a new grip that I think is very stunning and I think people will really like it, I do. So that’s one thing I noticed straight off the bat, some new edging that’s very sharp and elegant. Just all-around first impression was this is just an incredible aesthetic to the paddle. But beyond that, this is truly a player’s Pickleball paddle in that I think it’s very consistent. The sweet spot is – and I’ve tested many, many paddles for Paddle Geek at this point, my YouTube and Facebook review page. It’s quite honestly and often you hear that from manufacturers like, “Oh, it’s got a huge sweet spot!” Everyone says that and it gets kind of – you know? You hear it all the time and it loses it’s meaning for folks.

Morgan:  Yeah!

Brandon:  But truly, this one is above average and I think it really performs well out on the edges of the paddle more. And again, I can’t mention too much right now but just the facing that they are using for their paddle is something special and I think that contributes to that larger sweet spot. Would you agree?

Morgan:  Yeah. So I mean part of what we’re doing here, I’m interviewing a bunch of people; engineers, other players, yourself obviously, and one of the things that’s known about the paddle, the kind of new technology. This quad carbon technology used on the face of the paddle, that seems to be the difference-maker. And in talking with the engineer, Ron, it was all about creating the maximum amount of dwell time. When you talk about feel and something like that, so much of it is sound. But often as well, just how much time the ball feels like it’s spending on the paddle, it makes a difference and I think they’ve done a good job of expanding that sweet spot. So that’s sort of what you’re getting a sense of there when you feel like – and I can attest to the same. It does seem like whether you’re hitting it an inch or so from the guard or it’s in the exact same sweet spot, you’re getting a pretty familiar sort of sound and outcome, that kind of average ball speed, I’m enjoying certainly testing it out. So I’m glad you’ve picked up on that.

Brandon:  Yeah. And can I ask what weight you’re using? Or what weight do you typically use and what are you testing now?

Morgan:  So I’m usually around about 8.1 to 8.3. I’ve actually been testing a little bit with reducing the grip size and adding some extra to the head but it’s coming out around about 8 to 8.1, but quite a lot more head-heavy than normal, and I’m just kind of playing around with that.

Brandon:  Yeah.

Morgan:  So I’m undecided what sort of weight I need from this particular paddle. I will experiment. I love tinkering. I’m one of those tinkering kind of people. it gives me something to do. I imagine you’re in the similar boat?

Brandon:  Yeah, definitely. Immediately, I hit with it a little bit and then lead tape went on, hits more, lead tape came off. Just played with different weightings. And for me, honestly, I like a little bit of a head-heavy paddle, and so I think the Invikta is a very balanced paddle which is great for the majority of players. But for me, from a tennis background, I’ve always kind of liked my paddles a little head-heavy so I tend to weight them just a little bit more on the end of the paddle and on the sides just a bit. But that changes it tremendously so yeah, I’m kind of in that boat too, trying to figure out where I like this one to be exactly.

Morgan:  Well, that’s the magic of lead. I like that when you go and you buy a paddle from the Selkirk website, they’ll let you kind of choose and you can request a 9.5-ounce paddle if you want, which is kind of fun.

Brandon:  Yeah, I noticed that. I was looking at that the other day because a friend was asking about a Selkirk paddle, and I was trying to find him just the right one. And I noticed they went all the way up to 9.5 and I’m like, “What kind behemoth would swing this thing?” I tend to use an 8.4 so it’s not light but I know there are pros like Tyson, I think uses 9, Ben uses 9 around there. So it just depends on the person, I think. Having a nice, stable weight that doesn’t fatigue you too much I think is the key.

Morgan:  Yeah, I think people often underestimate what extra weight the paddle does to you over an entire day of play. It might seem like it’s only another half an ounce or something like that. But the swing weight and how it changes that when you add it at certain locations and the fact that you’re constantly trying to keep it up in the right position, swinging it as hard as you can or need to for particular shots, it all takes a toll. It’s not meaningless by any stretch of the imagination.

Brandon:  Yes, right. And that’s why I tell people if they’re going to go up in weight, and I do often tell people to go up in weight a little bit from where they are. Not always but for so long we heard, “lightweight, lightweight, lightweight” from everyone but I just think that doesn’t serve most people well. But I tell people to go up slowly with weight, not to go crazy and go up 6-ounces overnight. You’ve got to add slowly especially if you’re playing often like you mentioned. And so many of us Pickleball players, let’s be honest, we go out there and we play for two to three to seven hours at a time. That’s not unheard of.

Morgan:  Yeah, yeah, that’s this crazy addiction. You need to find a paddle that’s going to feed your addiction in the right way and not create an injury.

Brandon:  I love the stealth factor of this paddle. It’s one of the quietest paddles I’ve played with, I think.

Morgan:  Oh good.

Brandon:  And it’s just a satisfying kind of thunk but it’s not pitchy. And that stuff matters, those psychological factors matter to people. You’ve got to just personally connect with all the sensations of using a Pickleball, I think. I know for me personally, I can’t say much more than this, but I’ll mention there are other iterations that I’m very much looking forward to, other paddles within the VANGUARD line. But I believe – am I wrong in saying that the Invikta would be the first one released?

Morgan:  I believe that there will be three released. They’re going to keep three in the back for later release. But the first three that come ou, I believe are the Invikta, the Epic, and the S2. Those are their kind of more classic shapes. I mean Invikta obviously a bit longer.

Brandon:  Sure.

Morgan:  But S2 and Epic are more of your traditional shapes that do pretty well in the market.

Brandon:  Yup!

Morgan:  I believe a little later down the track, they’ll have some more boutique sort of shapes. The Maxima will be one of them, the Omni, and I believe the Mark 6. That will be interesting. That’s kind of like a long-handled version of the Invikta.

Brandon:  Oh that’s exciting.

Morgan:  Quite similar hear shape but with extra length in the handle for those that are looking for the two-handed backhand to play a role. And that’s kind of like a bit of a love child of the Lindsey and Riley Newman clan.

Brandon:  The defensive dynamo.

Morgan:  Yeah, yeah.

Brandon:  That’s what I had dubbed them when I watched them in Hawaii play. There’s hardly more exciting players to watch than Lindsey and Riley right now.

Morgan:  They’re great, aren’t they? I was just talking with them today about their game, and they’re feeling like with these new paddles, they’re going to be trying to take the gloves off and play a more offensive game. I’m curious how that’s going to work because what got them to the dance is their incredible defense. There are a lot of players out there that like to throw the first punch and they typically feed off that so well.

Brandon:  Yeah, that is true. I’ve seen the times – and I’m going to reference Hawaii again, watching Tyson and Riley play, what I loved seeing and I want to see more of this. Actually, I offered to – I wasn’t stepping on your toes, I know you’re the coach of Team Selkirk…

Morgan:  No, no, no.

Brandon:  But I said, “Hey, Newmans, I have some advice for you,” fully knowing how insulting that was to just start that way. I thought what the heck, they’re kind of friends of mine.

Morgan:  Why not?

Brandon:  I said you know I think quite honestly, I think Riley is at his best when he’s kind of – when they’re creating chaos, when Riley is curating that chaos on the court, those are the times that I’ve seen him just dominate. I don’t know if it’s a play-style that’s sustainable for an entire day but there are times where I’ve seen Riley take over. It’s been something to behold.

Morgan:  Yeah it is pretty impressive how quickly he can move laterally and squash those ball with that almost a semi-western grip. And as a team, they just know each other’s roles so well. There’s no other team out there that I feel that can kind of fill in the gaps for each other when they move into certain positions. They just instinctively know where they’ve got to be.

Brandon:  It’s not fair. I feel like their family connection somehow there’s ESP or something because they don’t talk.

Morgan:  Yeah. That’s true, they don’t like talking. I mean I get the same sort of sense often watching the Waters, Leigh and Anne Leigh.

Brandon:  Oh sure.

Morgan:  Obviously, it’s the same situation. They spend all their time training together and they just know each other’s movements so well that it’s almost pre-cognitive.

Brandon:   Yeah, and they won Nationals last year.

Morgan:  Lucky people. It looks like it’s working for them, so maybe that’s the key, just be related to your partner and you get a good chance.

Brandon:  Yeah, after this call, I’m going to have to make some other calls and convenience – I mean my siblings are gifted athletically. I’ll give them a few months. I’ll say, “I know you haven’t picked up a paddle yet but I think we can do this. I mean the Johns Brothers, look at them?”

Morgan:  Yeah, oh my god, yeah. That’s going to be tough to beat.

Brandon:  Yup, certainly.

 

Paddles for Players [74:50]

Morgan:  Alright, so earlier you mentioned that you felt like this VANGUARD, the Invikta version you’ve got especially is a player’s paddle? Is there a kind of player, in particular, do you feel like this would suit more than anyone else? Or do you think it’s a jack-of-all-trades?

Brandon:  I think between the two versions that I really like, I’m excited honestly for the S2 shape to be coming out as well because I would say the S2 would even fit in that role even more so. If you’re not sure of a shape that you want for a Pickleball paddle, that’s generally the one that I’m put into somebody’s hand. I’m like, “You won’t go wrong with this.”

The Invikta, I think does serve more of an attack-style player a little bit more. You’ve got that reach, you’ve got the leverage, you can get more power out of it. You can get more spin out of it on serves especially, are very, very fun with this new VANGUARD. I don’t know about you but I get a tremendous amount of spin with it and I think it’s because of that added dwell time that you mentioned and then the long lever of the Invikta. It’s not max length like the Maxima but it’s close. And that extra – you know it’s longer than most people’s paddles; although, that’s shifting rapidly in the market.

Morgan:  And the Maxima now is coming down a third of an inch, almost half an inch.

Brandon:  Can we call it the Maxima anymore?

Morgan:  Well, okay so yes and no. Yes is the short answer because it’s still maxing out the possible dimensions. So the length plus width is still coming out to 24. So in a sense…

Brandon:  I’ll accept that, that’s fair.

Morgan:  Okay. Good man, I appreciate that.

Brandon:  So no, that’s an exciting paddle to me. The sound of that is – I can’t wait to try that one out as well.

Morgan:  Oh good, excellent!

Brandon:  You know, I think this one though, with the Invikta shape and the VANGUARD, is very accessible even if it’s not so far on that spectrum of a single’s paddle or attack paddle that just an average recreational player wouldn’t benefit. You’ve got that little extra reach especially if you have a long day of dinking, that little extra reach matters.

Morgan:  Yeah, for sure.

Brandon:  Honestly, those three shapes, I would encourage people to try them out. You can’t really go wrong. The Epic shape has been around for a very long time now, since the beginning of Selkirk, I believe. I think like the 300-A Series and the 200 – I can’t remember, going back in the way-back machine.

Morgan:  Yeah, it’s going back, isn’t it? Jeez.

Brandon:  It’s a classic Pickleball shape. Between that and the S2, I love the massive hitting area that the S2 offers. It’s just a great blocking paddle, it’s a great dinking paddle and that massive sweet spot. You can honestly generate a decent amount of power just because of that kind of effect that you get from that large hitting area.

Morgan:  Well, good man. I’m almost tempted to try this S2 myself now. I think I’ve tried them all except from maybe the S2. I think I’ve even tried the Epic. But I’m always concerned, anything that might be too good I don’t want to risk moving away from my lovely Maxima.

Brandon:  Oh okay, I see. Yes, I understand.

Morgan:  It’s my baby.

Brandon:  Can I ask a little bit about it just in terms of the rounded shape that the Maxima – of course, I have a Maxima or two in my Geek Lab.

Morgan:  Yeah, sure.

Brandon:  Does it retain that rounded, aerodynamic shape of the Maxima’s of old?

Morgan:  Yes, so it maintains the rounded head. It’s a slightly wider rounded head, so 16 and 2/3 is the length, and the width is 7 1/3. So it certainly has, from the sort of top up, you can definitely notice it’s still a classic Maxima shape. The throat is a little different because we’ve lengthened the handle out. I’m actually a bit of a fan of some two-handedness as well.

Brandon:  I was just going to ask about that. I wanted to know about the grip and have you adopted that because so many players are now.

Morgan:  Yeah, I mean from tennis, I always had a two-handed backhand. I never felt fully comfortable with the previous generation Maxima grip length, so I wanted to get at least another half an inch to an inch or so of area there to play with, and I’m just loving it. It’s so much fun, it kind of ends up being, for me, it has so much power and spin to work with but now with some much, much needed defensive capability and versatility with the hands, having enough room for two hands on the backhand. So I’m excited for you to try it. I’m really curious what you think of it.

Brandon:  Yeah, I can’t wait. I actually have not added it in the same way like that some players are, like I just can’t generate enough quick power with it with the two-handed backhand. What I use it more for is – and Riley has mentioned this to me as well, the benefit of the two-hander that not everyone always thinks about which is its defensive capabilities. When somebody’s hitting hard at you or you’re trying to dig out that nasty smash that you had to defend at ¾ court or full court, and they just hit this meteor at you and you’re trying to hit a drop on that. Just adding that second hand sometimes can help you handle that just a little bit easier in that scenario and then as well with some two-handed dinks. If I really want to be precise with my backhand dink, I will add the second hand.

Morgan:  Interesting.

Brandon:  So not in some of the traditional ways or advantages that you might hear of with it.

Morgan:  But that’s good to know. Once in a while, I will experiment with two-handed dinks. The one thing I noticed and usually why I do it is because I know it forces me into moving my feet so much more. You don’t have the luxury of standing and reaching whereby maybe later in the day you feel like that’s all I’ve got in me, I’m just going to hope for the best on this one. If you’re using the two-hands, your comfort zone is smaller and you’ve got to work harder to get your body in a good position. And in the end once you’ve done that, you’re going to much more likely to play an effective shot anyway just being in that better position.

Brandon:  Sure. Can I ask you a question about the two-handed backhand?

Morgan:  Yeah, go for it.

Brandon:  In terms of dinks on the topic of two-handed backhand dinks, and this is something I see Riley that so few players are doing especially if they’re only using one hand, is Riley actually has a top spinning dink the backhand side which I found tremendously difficult, almost impossible to hit a one-handed backhand dink consistently. I practiced with it a little bit trying to hit it. Usually, it’s either a flat dink or a slice, fairly good slice dink the backhand side but topspin has eluded me with one hand.

Morgan:  Yeah.

Brandon:  And I noticed that I can hit a two-handed topspin. Of course, Riley is hitting those great attacks where he’s hitting those low ball and just topspinning so much on that two-handed backhand side. Talk to me about your experience with that. Are you able to hit a one-handed topspin dink backhand side?

Morgan:  I find it more difficult with the one-hand. With the two-handed backhand, as long as I get my body low enough, I find it much easier given that left hand for me – I’m a right-handed player so that left hand being further down the drip and it being a wrist position that allows me to really hinge that wrist backward easily and I allow my right hand to go very weak in terms of who’s running the show our of the two hands. And then I can sort of start to feel like I’m playing a kind of a topspin forehand with my left hand. The right hand is still there for the ride but the left hand can really take over and start sort of massaging the ball. Yeah, that’s definitely a doable shot with the two-handed backhand dink. And it’s something I think not enough players are sort of experimenting with because I think most people feel like the sacrifice in reach is going to be too much. But I think it’s something that your feet will figure out how to get you there if they’re forced to.

Brandon:  Yeah.

Morgan:  And your options, the kinds of shot selections available to you might indeed be worth it, so at least give it go.

Brandon:  So you kind of burned the ships on the one-handed backhand and just then you have to go for it.

Morgan:  Yeah, exactly.

Brandon:  That’s too much of a stretch from that metaphor but…

Morgan:  No, that’s fine. This show is all about metaphors, analogies, puns.

Brandon:  Oh excellent.

Morgan:  Sometimes double entendres.

Brandon:  Double-handed…

Morgan:  Oh nice work!

Brandon:  Just to tie it back together.

Morgan:  Good man! Well, Brandon, thank you so much for your time, mate. We really appreciate you giving your two cents. We’re all hopeful that the launch is going to be as successful as it should be. It’s a difficult time for the world and for Pickleball, and I think this is going to be a bit of a shining light for a lot of people out there that had been waiting for Slekirk’s next big thing. This is going to be fun. It’s going to be wild.

Brandon:  Let me just say one more thing before I sign off which is that I’ve obviously worked with a lot of companies, and one thing I want to mention about Selkirk, in general, is that I have such a high degree of trust factor built with them at this point to where I know how much work they put into their products. From their bags to their shirts, anything that they produce is topnotch. I don’t even have to see it, I don’t have to play with it. If they tell me there’s something new coming out, I know it’s a home run because of just their passion for the sport and their wisdom and their leadership and the team that they’ve built. From you as coach of Team Selkirk to some of the players that they have, everything is just topnotch. So just to pay a long-winded compliment there.

Morgan:  You’re very kind. I agree with your sentiments there. They’re a fantastic bunch, so I love doing this podcast and it’s been so good to have you on and to talk to us about the paddle. We’ll do it again soon, won’t we? We can make this a regular thing, jeez!

Brandon:  That would be fun. I am the Paddle Geek.

Morgan:  You are the Paddle Geek.

Brandon:  Yeah, I appreciate it, Morgan. It’s been a blast.

Morgan:  Alright, mate. Take care of yourself. Stay safe. Say hi to the family and we’ll see you on the court soon.

Brandon:  Will do. Thanks, Morgan!

Morgan:  Alright. Cheers, mate! Take care.

 

Time to Wrap It Up [86:01]

Morgan:  Honestly, I was a little nervous about that but he appears to be a big fan of the paddle, so that’s a win.

Okay folks, it’s time to wrap things up and put a little bow in it. The VANGUARD Hybrid would be released in three shapes on Tuesday, the 30^th of June. Those shapes will be the Epic, the S2, and the Invikta. The VANGUARD Hybrid specialty shapes like the Maxima, the Mark 6, and the Omni will be released in October. Watch out for that Maxima, it’s going to be a game-changer.

The VANGUARD Power will be released in the Epic, the S2, and the Invikta in August. While the Maxima, the Mark 6, and the Omni Power will be released in October as well.

Each paddle will be priced at US$200. That’s a pricepoint befitting of the game’s most premium paddle.

I find that a lot of people ask me about paddles either during a lesson or at a tournament, and they want to know if a particular paddle is going to be right for them, or if the one they’re using is right for them. And I’ll often respond in the same way. Sunshine, it’s probably not the arrow, it’s the archer.

That’s it. I tell you, it feels great to have the best arrow in the business. I’m Morgan Evans and this has been More of Less Pickleball, the VANGUARD Special.

Well, actually I guess it’s probably been entirely Pickleball this time around. Oh well, more shinanigans next time. Take it easy folks!

 

 

Nicely done, Brandon [88:00]

Brandon:  How do I sound on your end of things?

Morgan:  I tell you, this could be top 5 sounding audio of all time.

Brandon:  Oh nice! I borrowed my wife’s handy H6 Recorder so I’ve got some really nice podcasting equipment that is not mine but I will use it.

Morgan:  You can credit for it. What’s her is yours.

Brandon:  Yeah, exactly.

Morgan:  You made the relationship work, therefore you have the right to her podcasting equipment, that’s how it works.

Brandon:  Yeah, I think we wrote that up.