010 | Let’s Keep It All Above Board

Morgan:  In today’s episode we’ve got a blast from the past when I catch up with the uber-talented Dave Flemming. Dave isn’t just one of the top Pickleball players in the world, he’s also a comedian. Labeled as the Jerry Seinfeld of corporate comedy, he performs around the country while juggling his work as the Senior VP for a major ad agency. It’s fair to say the man’s sees the world in different ways which is why I can’t wait to talk. Please welcome Dave Flemming.

 

Catching up with Dave [0:51]

Morgan:  Happy to have you. How’ve you been?

Dave:  I’m doing well. I mean it’s a crazy 10 weeks that’s for sure,  or more. But doing I’m doing well. It’s been very interesting that both my daughters are in college and then suddenly it’s like we’re back in middle school because they’re all here. So thankful and lucky that my family is all healthy.

Morgan:  Yeah, that’s great!

Dave:  That’s the good news. How are you?

Morgan:  Yeah, it’s been a strange one. But actually Riverside county where I am has opened tennis, pickleball, and golf about a month ago.

Dave:  Nice!

Morgan:  Yeah, I’ve been kind of back, busy at work.

Dave:  Good!

Morgan:  All is pretty much well but it’s obviously a trying time for us all. I assume the office closed for you? Or are you able to just keep going in there?

Dave:  Yes, we’re fortunate from our business, we didn’t realize how good we could be working remotely. But we do graphic designs for many of the world’s biggest brands and we were always gathered together, and we immediately had to react and get people safe and comfortable. And now, we’ve found that we are as efficient as we were before, and quite frankly, a lot of people like their commute from their bedroom to their office as 22 seconds versus some people are driving two hours in rush hour traffic and cussing out people that didn’t use a turn signal and everything else.

Morgan:  Yeah. So do you think one of the long-term effects of this pandemic is going to be a kind of restructuring in the office environment?

Dave:  No question. Later today, as a matter of fact, I have a call on that very topic. I think one of the phrases I can’t stand is we’ve always done it that way, I think that applies to Pickleball as well. But why do we have to go to this place when we can be equally as effective somewhere else. So there is no question, I think you will see many companies looking at how to find a happy medium. Certainly you need to gather, certainly the sense of community, certainly I am keeping a very close eye on the mental health of my team just because there are some people that live by themselves and need that personal connection. I’m fortunate to have the lovely Deb Flemming and my two daughters, so I have that every day.

Morgan:  Yeah.

Dave:  But I guarantee you a huge percentage of companies, and I’m talking all the way up the Fortune 500, are going to change what the going-to-the-office requirements are. There is no doubt.

Morgan:  Yeah, we’re going to see exactly what level of leadership is present in these bigger companies as a great expression in leadership is what happens when the boss isn’t looking. And now with all these people staying at home now, obviously but likely going to be given the choice if they want to come in or not come in, or they may no longer a place to come into after companies realize, “Well, we can save some office space. Stay home. Hopefully, you can be as productive.” It’s going to be a really interesting time for the corporate world – I mean, the whole world, obviously, how we bounce back from this. But I’m very curious if a company can actually maintain a level of productivity. Right now, I think everybody is in this kind of honeymoon period of, “Really? I get to work from home? Fantastic!”

But how long is it actually going to be viable until the kind of office dynamics and behavioral psychology that kind of dictate productivity within an office in a company shifts dramatically?

Dave:  Yeah, I think it’s both ways right now. I feel so much for the single parent or certainly my goodness, the healthcare workers and so forth where the burden of daycare, teaching, and all that fell upon people working at home. So that plus the demands of whatever their career might be. So if you get to a point where schools are back to as close to normal and the daycare situation is as close to normal, and people don’t have fear of going to the grocery store which I respect that many people do. So even that shopping dynamic has changed. So I think people are going to try and see what the new normal is but they might really like being at home when all that other stuff isn’t such a huge burden on them because they can’t escape it. I think a lot of people found refuge at the office because they could get away from the challenges and really focus on their careers. So it would be interesting, to your point, can people continue to drive their career from their kitchen table.

Morgan:  Yeah, a couple of other people I played Pickleball with, one of them is a police officer for the Palm Springs department, and he was telling me that things have generally been slower for them except for domestic disputes. How many relationships are going to get tested by the virtue of the fact that now you’re actually stuck together? I think there’s a certain amount of time that we all like to spend together with our loved ones and partners but there’s a limit.

Dave:  Yeah.

Morgan:  I know I have my kind of limits. They could easily be disguised as commitment issues but they’re really not. I just don’t like any one person so much that I want to be around them all the time. I really need to think about whether or not we edit that bit out because Jen might listen to this.

Dave:  (laughs…) Yeah, I was about to say I know somebody.

Morgan:  Sorry sweety! But you know it’s true.

Dave:  Yeah, I think, Morgan, it’s like this has been taped a couple of days after Memorial Day and the three-day weekend used to be something where I’d be traveling or have just a bear of a week in the office and then you get to this relaxation and just get away from it all and that extra day was just enormous. And now, I’m at the same place as I was on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday beforehand. So just those things are different and it’s not different bad, I mean it’s just different and finding whatever everyone’s personal endeavors are within a space, I’m sure every dog in the world is like, “What happened here?” because I don’t get my space ever now. So it’s just weird but like Memorial day, putting aside what it stands for and the appreciation of those that fought for our country, just the idea of a three-day weekend whatever it is, is just different. I think we’re all trying to figure that out. I have talked to a lot of people about if you knew that this was coming, would have planned for it differently? I think the answer is probably everybody would have. But that wasn’t the way the world worked this year, so we’re all doing the best we can, we’re playing cards like crazy and all the little things that maybe we took for granted before really special now.

Morgan:  Yeah, family time is now forced upon us as opposed to it being a choice, and I think everybody is going to realize pretty quickly if they haven’t already, just how much they actually like their family.

Dave:  For sure.

 

Let’s talk Pickleball [7:52]

Morgan:  So bringing this to a slightly more Pickleball related topic. Apparently, Pickleball is in the name of this show, so we should probably bring it in somehow.

Sponsor: CoachMe Pickleball

 

Morgan:  Like every other sport, Pickleball has taken a hit by this. Do you think marketers are going to be able to find a way to right the ship in some way, shape, or form? Like finding a niche kind of market to fill the void where the influx of money from tournaments and paddle sales are obviously down considerably?

Dave:  Yeah, I think you’ve seen this backyard explosion of – especially all the cities and state regulations where the courts are closed, the church is closed, the gyms are closed, wherever people might play. I know I’ve played in the alley for a while on a temporary net, so I’m certain that that’s happening. I think the opportunity is there and I think the smart marketers now need to be planning for the fact that you mentioned your area is opened back up. I live in Texas and Texas courts are opened back up, so I used the term and have used it many times with our fine Barnes brothers that are the backbone of Selkirk that this is the obsession that we all have. And when you’re obsessed with something and you can’t have it, that doesn’t make you less obsessed, that makes you more obsessed. You can’t even stand to get out there. So I think smart marketers will be ready for the influx of people that are going to want something to fuel that obsession again, and you just have to be able to position that as to why this is important right now, what makes it different or better? But I know the Pickleball people that I talked to every day, they want to get a little better or have the newest thing or whatever, and I don’t think that goes away. I certainly respect the heck out of the difficulties of the economics of what we talked about earlier and certainly that is a part of this. But I think people really, really, truly love the game and showing why any new product across the pickleball spectrum will make that love for the game a little better with that disposable income which maybe went to concert tickets or sporting events or whatever will find its way into the Pickleball land. Because for a lot of the listeners of this program and all the Pickleball people that you and I interact with all the time, Pickleball is number one and that’s awesome.

Morgan:  So trickle-down economics will come to the rescue.

Dave:  I hope so.

Morgan:  Yeah, I think you’re right. I do wonder how many players out there right now are addicted to the game or addicted to the competition? I did a show three or four weeks ago – you might have listened to it, with a guy name Shea McClellin, who’s new to Pickleball but a former NFL player, won the Superbowl. One of the interesting things he said was he was never in love with football, he just loves competition, and his body and this athletic nature suited football the best. I find myself – I love competition and as long as I’m able to compete to a certain extent, I’m now too [12:17] how I do it. I find a way to compete whether it’s just with myself from yesterday or people around me in different environments like I’m playing quite a lot of golf these days, and it’s a good way to have a fairly safe competition against myself, against the course. Do you think Pickleball has gotten to the point where there are players out there that literally look at as a job as opposed to the fun-loving game that we all just stumbled across and got addicted to and found ourselves in this position years later?

Dave:  I certainly think there’s probably a small percentage in that camp of this is a grind. And when you hear grind, it’s usually not a positive. But I think for the people that want to get better, and I’ve had the pleasure to play with Shea. Shea is a big boy at the kitchen line, let me tell you. I think this sport as I’ve seen it is different. I played tennis since I was 5 years old, and the burnout that you hear about is real. Juniors, people that play the high-level leagues in all the big tennis markets, Dallas certainly being one of them. It’s real, you just get to the point where it feels like a job even though you’re not playing for any money. The communal spirit of Pickleball is what I’ve seen is different and certainly 40 plus years of tennis versus 3 ½ years of Pickleball for me is a difference. So it’s not the brand-new, shiny object but it’s still the new, shiny object. But I don’t know people that have quit or ever say that. That’s the difference I see. I think the level of competitiveness is either within; one, as you said, how do I hit my third shot drop a little better? Or how do I finally beat Jerry who I’ve played against for five years? And you can be 3-0, 3-5 or whatever level Jerry is, you have that little battle that Jerry doesn’t even know he’s in the middle of. So I think Pickleball has been for me, a wonderful combination of all of that. And to be able to compete at a very high level again at something I am obsessed, but I’m obsessed in a way that I can’t wait to go out and play. And I can’t wait to go out and play at all levels. I’ll probably go out later today and play with my daughters and my wife, and just have fun teaching them the game and some of the nuances as they add that into their athletic endeavors. To wrap this back up to COVID, that’s the opportunity I’m getting now, to teach the game more often to them who are away at college. So I just think Pickleball so far has just been different. It’s the relationships, it’s everyone loves playing but there’s a smile on your face even at the highest level of competition. Personally, I certainly believe it will stay that way and I certainly hope it does for the sport. But I’ve definitely seen people that are grinding on the difficult grind side of it and I think that’s probably going to be the case in any endeavor like this.

Morgan:  It is a word that can go both ways really. I know personally, I never made it as a tennis player in the professional ranks and college tennis doesn’t really exist in the same way it does in America back in Australia. But every time I meet someone who has played a lower level of professional tennis, futures, challengers, high-level college stuff, they use that word a lot “the grind”, the daily grind, getting out there for five or six hours a day for the slim possibility that one day you might be on the world stage and make it inside. You got to be, for Men’s, around the top 70 or 75 they say, to be making money. In Women’s 20 to 25 players in the world as making money, making a decent living.

Dave:  Yes.

Morgan:  The rest, the ends aren’t’ meeting and they fairly quickly fall out. Obviously, we don’t have the kind of money in Pickleball that tennis does. At some point, it’s a real kind of chicken and the egg – what’s going to go first? Having enough players that are literally out there whether they want to or not, and then fathers teaching children the same way, making sure they’re on the court, dinking, doing their thirds, going through the motions whether that kid wants it or not. The Andre Agassi kind of principle of if you’re a parent, you can make a child a champion whether they want to or not.

Dave:  Right.

Morgan:  It doesn’t make a good idea but at some point, is Pickleball ever going to be that kind of sport and therefore, have a chance to perhaps be introduced to the Olympics beyond a demonstration event?

Dave:  Yeah, I certainly think it can. I know a lot of people want that goal. I know there’s rules and guidelines about the number of countries that have to play it so the international growth of the game will be really important. I think the infancy of what this game really is as it’s growing and it’s certainly growing. I was looking at some stats the other day like just the search for the term Pickleball was at its height earlier this year, then obviously COVID came along. So I think this obviously has been a huge bet temporary, in my opinion, stop in the road. So I think we can get that going. When you look at something like the Nationals at Indian Wells Tennis Garden, that’s the things that the big sponsors and the big corporation will want to get behind as you show it and grow it in more people. So you just need scale and we’re not a lot of years into this being on a national stage from the standpoint of just awareness of what Pickleball is. It’s coming along for sure. I know everyone freaked out the other day when Ellen mentioned that she plays Pickleball, so every little mention like that helps the sport and every little mention like that is a building block to what you talked about, about someday having whatever the [18:25] version of Pickleball, the Ben Johns when he’s 55, grinding these little sparkies out on the court would be awesome to see. Tyson McGuffin out there teaching that would be amazing. And I think it’s a realistic goal down the road. We just all as ambassadors of the sport especially now, have to just keep putting the game in front of the right people and once we get through this incredibly difficult time in our country, use Pickleball as a fuel to get those connections going again because we are disconnected because of the virus, it’s because of other stuff going on and I think Pickleball is unique in that way and that we can get people from all across the country and hopefully all the countries that play reconnected against something that we all truly love and then just keep building on that, and then we’ll have the Pickleball Academy someday.

 

Pickleball Trivia [19:23]

Morgan:  He’s a funny guy. I do love Dave Flemming. But we’re going to take our break there to get involved with another game of Pickleball Trivia.

Welcome to Pickleball Trivia. We got a special one today, folks! A couple of brothers from Washington, Garrett and Damon Little. How are you doing fellas?

Damon:  Good, Morgan. How are you?

Morgan:  Yeah, can’t complain. So how old are you guys?

Garrett:  I’m 13.

Morgan:  13? That’s Garrett?

Garrett:  Yes.

Morgan:  And Damon, how old are you, mate?

Damon:  I’m 19.

Morgan:  Okay. Alright, I won’t do too many history questions because I don’t know how long you guys have been following Pickleball. How long have you been playing?

Garrett:  About three years probably.

Damon:  Yeah.

Morgan:  Oh alright, so you know some stuff. Have you played tournaments?

Damon:  Yes.

Morgan:  Nice! Cool! Okay, yeah you guys would be good. A lot of these adults are (bleep…) so hopefully, you guys can prove your demographic to be effective.

Garrett, you’re going to be contestant #1, you will have the serve. I’m going to ask you a Pickleball related question. If you manage to get that right, you’ll get the point and continue answering questions. The first player to get to five points is the winner and will receive almost unlimited Selkirk gift voucher, don’t tell them I said that obviously. If you get the question wrong, unfortunately, you lose the serve. It will go over to contestant #2, Damon.

Now, you guys are in separate rooms, right?

Damon:  Yes.

Morgan:  Okay, good. Let’s keep it all above board. Alright, so Garrett, you are contestant #1, are you ready for your first questions?

Garrett:  Yes, I’m all ready.

Morgan:  Okay. In a two out of three to 11-point game of singles, how many timeouts per game is a player allowed to call?

Garrett:  Two.

Morgan:  That is correct. That was far too easy. You answered that very quickly, so I can tell you’re already ahead of the game.

Question #2: Typically, how many holes are in an outdoor pickleball?

Garrett:  40.

Morgan:  This is all happening so fast. Okay, this could be the quickest game in history.

Damon:  Come on, Morgan. We got to beef these questions up.

Morgan:  Alright, alright, don’t you worry, we’ll get there.

Garrett, question #3: What year was Pickleball invented? That’s the spirit, that’s exactly what Damon wanted to hear.

Damon:  Yes!

Garrett:  Can I use a timeout?

Morgan:  No, you can’t use a timeout. I tried to do the timeout thing early on but the amount of trying to make the right hints was killing me.

Garrett:  I’ll go with 1985.

Morgan:  Unfortunately, that is incorrect. That means Damon has a chance to steal the point and the serve. Damon, what do you got for me?

Damon:  I’ve got 1965.

Morgan:  That is correct. You have the right answer. Well-played, well-played.

Damon:  Thank you!

Morgan:  So you’re on the board, you have the serve. Next question: What is the total maximum dimension of a USAPA-approved paddle?

Damon:  Oh shoot!

Morgan:  That is length plus width has to be under a certain dimension under certain measurements. What is it?

Damon:  Is it 22 inches?

Morgan:  It is not 22 inches. Unfortunately, that means Garrett has a chance. Garrett?

Garrett:  20?

Morgan:  Unfortunately, that also is incorrect. The correct answer is 24 inches.

Damon:  Okay.

Morgan:  Yeah, bad luck. Don’t worry, happens to the best of us. You guys are still doing really well compared to most of the people on this show. Okay, so it means Damon, you get to keep the serve and you’ll have a chance at getting another question right.

Pickles was the name of the dog that legend says the sport was named after. What kind of dog was he?

Damon:  Was it a Cocker Spaniel?

Morgan:  It was. You listened to the show before, didn’t you?

Damon:  Maybe a little bit.

Morgan:  Good man! You should get credit for that. Alright, so we’ve got a tied ball game, two points each. Are you ready, Mr. Damon?

Damon:  I am ready.

Morgan:  According to the 2020 USAPA Rulebook, there is no restriction to paddle thickness. True or false?

Damon:  True.

Morgan:  That is correct. Alright, yeah it could be as thick as you want. It seems odd but why not?

Damon:  Yeah.

Morgan:  So you’re up 3-2. The Nasty Nelson is named after which player?

Damon:  Of course, it is Timothy Nelson.

Morgan:  It is Timothy Nelson. Alright, so you’re only one point away. Are you feeling the pressure?

Damon:  No, I am feeling fully confident, I’m ready to go.

Morgan:  Oh yeah, this next one is going to be tough.

Damon:  Okay.

Morgan:  Who won the Men’s Pro Doubles in the 2016 USA Open?

Damon:  Oh, 2016? Was it Dave Weinbach and Kyle Yates?

Morgan:  It was indeed Weibach and Yates. That was before you even started playing, come on?

Damon:  It was!

Morgan:  How did you get away with that? Jeez! This was supposed to go for 45 minutes. I really thought you people would get things wrong but I think you only missed a couple of questions. This is some kind of record.

Garrett, I’m afraid you started strong, you really did. I had high hopes for you. I’m a younger brother to my older brother, not surprisingly. And yeah, is it going to kill you? It’s not going to kill you, is it?

Garrett:  I know that he’s been researching a lot.

Morgan:  Oh well, so there’s a bit of a lesson here. If you do your research, you’ll probably going to win.

Fair enough. Well, what I’ll do is I’ll make sure we have a rematch because this brotherly competition is what’s life is all about really. So we’ll get you back on there and give you a chance at redemption. Is that cool with you, Garrett?

Garrett:  Yes, all good!

Morgan:  Alright, good man. Well, I hope you two are staying safe, staying out of trouble. Have you been able to play much Pickleball?
Damon:  Yeah, a little bit. We have a kind of makeshift court here at home. It’s not a full length but it’s good for thinking and net play and drills, so we’ve been keeping busy with that.

Morgan:  Good stuff. And when tournaments start playing again, what’s next on the horizon for you?

Damon:  We’re not entirely sure. We’re pondering possibly making a trip down to TOC but we’ll see. It’s in the works, got to convenience the mother first.

Morgan:  That’s a possible ponder for seeing the TOC.

Damon:  Yeah.

Morgan:  Alright, that’s a mouthful. I’ll be pondering the same. If I get there and you’re there, I’ll see you there.

Damon:  Awesome!

Morgan:  Alright fellas, stay out of trouble. Be good to your parents. Take it easy!

Damon:  Thank you so much.

Morgan:  No worries. Cheers, guys. Bye.

[background music plays…]

 

26:27

Morgan:  Well there you go, boys will be boys. Damon defeating Garrett. I’m going to go out on a limb and say game #1 because we’ll definitely have those kids back. They seem nice. Let’s check back in with Dave.

 

26:40

Morgan:  Yeah, it’s interesting you say that but I think once we get children playing Pickleball from a young age, then we won’t be sort pigeon-holed into if you’re a great tennis player, congratulations. You get to walk into being a professional Pickleball player. I think and I’m very curious, my main curiosity what is Pickleball technique going to look like in 100 years? Because I refuse to believe it’s just going to be great tennis players using tennis shots, and that’s not the case specifically now but it’s pretty dominated by tall, athletic tennis players or young Dave Flemming with wonderful two-handed backhands.

Dave:  Young is very nice there, Morgan. Thank you, brother.

Morgan:  Well, it’s relative. The guy you’ve been compared to the most in life, Jerry Seinfeld, I think he’s older than you.

Dave:  He is.

Morgan:  Have you seen the new show? That’s the biggest question I’m getting to, 23 Hours to Kill, I think it’s called? Have you seen it?

Dave:  Well, Morgan, you didn’t know this answer was coming but I’m glad you asked. I actually saw that live.

Morgan:  Oh you did!

Dave:  Yeah. So I happen to be in New York. Went and took the lovely Deb, who I mentioned before, to the Beacon Theater and saw that live.

Morgan:  That is so good!

Dave:  As some people know, I’ve done my share of comedy over the years, and Jerry Senfield is my favorite show. So it was really fortunate. I was there for business and then my wife and I stayed over the weekend to do a show and was able to sneak our way into getting some tickets and seeing him live and in New York City, in his backyard just freaking talked about world-class athletes. That’s maybe the greatest stand-up comedian ever, and to see it live on his favorite stage was just the best.

Morgan:  Yeah, I mean his delivery, his timing is just incredible. He has not lost a beat. He’s gotten better, it’s incredible how quickly he could just pick up where he left off. I mean who knows how many little shows he’s been doing here and there but I was blown away. I haven’t seen a stand-up show from for 15, 20 years. Amazing stuff!

 

See you on the courts soon, Dave [28:59]

Morgan:  Well, Dave Flemming, I think we’ve got through almost everything the world needs to hear, I’d say. What do you reckon?

Dave:  Well, good. I love talking anything with you, Morgan. I love being on this show and I certainly hope anyone who’s listening to this is safe and well, and look forward to seeing yourself and all the fellow pickleballers out on the courts for rec play and tournaments really darn soon.

Morgan:  Certainly. Is there a way your fan club can get in touch with you? Do you have a fan club? Is it budding? Is there a website?

Dave:  You know if you go on YouTube and type in Dave Flemming Speaks, you’ll find some of my corporate comedy. I do it maybe once or twice a year. I do an event called Pickle-palooza which is a huge celebration of Pickleball, and pros playing and people learning, and playing against people from all over the country. So I’ve actually now done comedy on a Pickleball court too, Morgan, to bring this whole freaking thing together and it was a blast to do that.

Morgan:  Good man!

Dave:  So there’s some of that on there. I mean marketing and comedy are very similar from finding insights about a person or about people’s behaviors and making a fund spin on it. I look a lot younger in the clips because I haven’t filmed anything in a while but I love to have people check it out, Morgan.

Morgan:  Fantastic! And I will check it out, don’t you worry.

Dave:  Good, good. You do that.

Morgan:  Alright, bud. I will let you go. We’ll see you on the courts soon, I hope.

Dave:  Certainly agree. Thanks, my man!

Morgan:  Alright, take care, Dave. Cheers, mate!

Dave:  Bye!

Sponsor: Selkirk Sport

 

My Favorite Email [31:11]

Dave:  And my favorite email of all is the recalling…

(audience laughing…)

Dave: Because you’re sitting there in your desk and you get an email, and then a second a later you get, “Oh recall, recall! This person wants to reach into my laptop and suck that email out of that machine.”

Now, here’s the deal about the recall email, when your email first arrived, I’m really wasn’t that interested.

(audience laughing…)

Dave:  But now that you want it back…

(audience laughing…)

Dave:  I am reading every darn word!

(audience laughing…)

Dave:  I want to know what has gone astray in this email. And if this is a clever ploy to get me to read your emails, it is working!